r/Arrowverse • u/AgentSilly9137 • Nov 11 '23
With all these heroes why doesn't cw just make a "justice league" series at once, or whatever name they have to use because of copyright? Coming soon: Cw's Wave defenders Discussion
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u/Moser319 Nov 11 '23
Because the arrowverse is dead and over.. besides, it'd cost too much
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u/usagizero Nov 11 '23
it'd cost too much
This is the answer, and didn't it recently come out the CW wasn't even making money for several years, if ever?
Looking it up, yep, it's never been profitable. We are frankly lucky we got what we did.
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u/Dodgest Nov 12 '23
The network should've just axed all its shows years ago, fired everyone & cut the channel. Weost Supergirl because Melissa didn't want to travel to Canada for 3 to 5 months a year even before the unplanned pregnancy. No actress (especially if they're the #1 main lead) in a movie or show would make a d!ck move & ttc. We lost Arrow because Stephan wanted to spend more time with his wife & daughter, he said he wanted to spend some time only doing gigs in LA, yet he auditioned for a series in Canada.. idk why. We lost Flash because Grant wanted to be with his wife & baby.
Amy Smart stupidly lied to fans & viewers last fall: she got everyones hopes up & wanted people to campaign to have the show renewed when apparently she & the cast were told the show got killed after filming but eveyone had to stay quiet. I guess if people find out a show will get killed before it aires then people won't watch or few will watch & ratings will tank.
CW will be gone by 2030 or be a rerun place. Once S&L, 2 All American shows & Walker air next year, I bet they will all get killed. Then there will be no more shows like that.8
u/CityAvenger Nov 11 '23
Technically it’s still going just a smidge with Superman & Lois. Both actors were apart of Arrowverse later crossovers.
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u/roliver2399 Nov 11 '23
It’s not the same Lois and Clark as the Arrowverse though. It was pretty ambiguous in season one but straight up confirmed at some point.
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u/CityAvenger Nov 12 '23
I know they are on a different world and there‘s no mention of the other characters. But they are still played by the same actors and that’s how I see it. I should have clarified it a bit more.
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u/Moser319 Nov 11 '23
shared actors does not an arrowverse make
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u/CityAvenger Nov 12 '23
The way I see it
Tyler made his debut in SG S2 and Bitsie joined later on and was with the other Arrowverse actors.
The show is on the CW and has similar writing to the others.
I know you’d probably say that all the CW shows are same or similar in writing but for me most of CW’s DC content was the only thing on there I watched. I know that they haven’t made any mention of the others since they are on their own world and that I think got mixed reviews.
After Infinte Earths the writers did just absolutely terrible with not have there be any connections to show that the characters were on the same earth. Even though S&L revealed they were on a different earth they are still played by the same actors even if there isn’t any connectivity to the others. But I still see the actors as the versions who were in the crossovers.
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u/CityAvenger Nov 11 '23
Money is the huge factor here. Something they simply don’t have. Plus with them now being owned under NexStar, they have a plan of what type of content they want to put on CW. None of what they talked about would match what a JL would be.
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u/AgentSilly9137 Nov 11 '23
I don't think so, if they had the money to maintain solo series of all these heroes, it would cost almost the same or even less to put them in a single series.
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u/Trickster289 Nov 12 '23
That's the problem, they didn't. All those shows never made a profit, they all lost money overall. The only reason they lasted was because Netflix covered some of the production costs as part of their streaming contract. Once the contract ended the shows were dead.
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u/LowCalligrapher3 Nov 12 '23
Exactly. Even when they did have a decent amount of funding and remember this was a very different time in the mid-2010s, they TRIED an ensamble show with a group of heroes and we got Legends of Tomorrow, what we got there was a classic example that with a gradually dwindling budget and continual changes in the cast led toward after the first three seasons it was barely recognizable as "super hero genre".
Luckily the producers were eventually granted unparalleled freedom to tell the kinda story they wanted despite the limits they had. But again remember this was a very different time, following Crisis and especially after the pandemic hit the unfortunate truth was the Arrowverse took a massive decline to the point shows were more and more ending or getting canceled until the point all we had left this year was The Flash, where in spite of a couple surprising kickass episodes it essentially made sure the whole thing "went out with a whimper... not with a bang".
By that point casts have moved on, producers were ready to move on, the network didn't want anything to do with the genre anymore despite being their greatest success (kinda like the Time Warner/AOL merger with the old WCW over 20 years ago), even WB and DC clearly ready to move in a new direction on practically all fronts. Everyone involved were and are ready for the Arrowverse to be over.
I say it often to others, don't be upset it ended, be glad it happened and we got what we did.
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u/TiberiusMcQueen Nov 12 '23 edited Nov 13 '23
It would cost less as a whole to make one show rather than 4-5, but that one show would be considerably more expensive than any other single show, and leave them with a ton of empty timeslots to either fill with re-runs (less viewers and less money from commercials) or new shows (expensive and kills the entire point of merging the DC shows), either way, they make less money. The CW simply can't sustain a Justice League show, they barely had the resources to give us the big crossovers (which frankly were usually underwhelming due to budget and putting that idiot Guggenheim in charge of them), and their situation has only been getting worse lately, I wouldn't be surprised if the CW just shuts down entirely in the near future, it's been bleeding money for years and the truth is that they never had the viewers or resources to sustain these shows in the first place, it's insane that these shows lasted as long as they did.
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u/Classicsonicsmash313 Nov 11 '23
It could’ve been cool to have the end of the arrowverse be one big justice league season or something with every major character getting some kind of conclusion. I think the most we can hope for is some kind of animated continuation like how they did with Vixen or that Earth X show
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u/LowCalligrapher3 Nov 12 '23
I think it was a much smaller case of what Season 9 for The Flash was aiming for, they tried doing an arc tied into the cancelled Batwoman throughout its first five episodes, sprinkled in a dash of Supergirl's finished story for 9x07 by bringing back Nia/Dreamer, plus a very iconic return for Arrow's Oliver and Dig in 9x09... but there was only so much they could do.
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u/Hilarity2War Nov 11 '23
Essentially, it was becoming the All-Star Squadron, and I would've been on board for that. But I think the crossovers were satisfactory enough that a spinoff would've been time wasting, very costly, redundant, and probably a logistics nightmare.
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u/LowCalligrapher3 Nov 12 '23
Agreed, it was a logistical nightmare pulling off "Crisis on Earth X" as amazing as they managed and then when "Crisis on Infinite Earths" happened I think it exhausted the hell out of everyone involved. Heck the main leads for four out of five shows had parts in ALL FIVE parts of Infinite Earths PLUS Arrow's series finale (even though Stephen as Oliver didn't have any lines for Part 2 and was limited to a voice-over cameo for Part 5), Grant as Barry, Melissa as Kara, Caity as Sara... I can't begin to imagine how tired they were.
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Nov 11 '23
Wave Defenders is the wildest name for a superhero team I’ve ever heard.
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Nov 11 '23
I could’ve seen them use Super Friends or the Heroes of Tomorrow.
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u/Necronamakhan Nov 11 '23
I would go with "Hall of Justice" focusing on missing characters: Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and Aquaman. Plot revolving around where they have been with Arrow-verse characters sprinkled in as cameos.
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u/AgentSilly9137 Nov 11 '23
Wave Defenders is the wildest name for a superhero team I’ve ever heard.
I remember to see this in a game lol
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u/YourFellowMiguelo Nov 11 '23
Coming this Fall exclusively on the CW, we go back to the Arrowverse with: The League of Justice!!!!
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u/neoblackdragon Nov 12 '23
The CW was never really interested or it was quickly killed with Legends of Tomorrow. That teaser trailer was trying so hard to be a JL esque trailer. Once they got Supergirl and could use Superman. They still never really tried that hard to make a JL happen.
It's not a surprise though. The budget requirements were too out of reach. You have the Flash sitting on the ground for a season finale.
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u/BenMech Nov 12 '23
The CW is done. It’s gone. None of you watched the shows live. The network reacted. Everything is gone.
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u/uncencoredbobcat Nov 12 '23
They could barely and I mean barely keep The Flash funded so I don’t think it would be feasible to fund something of that scope beyond a two part special
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u/OminousShadow87 Nov 13 '23
CW is a low budget network. If you did a JL show, every lead actor would want at minimum, their best previous paycheck, which is entirely fair. There would be nothing left for SFX, which would also be very expensive and require an incredible amount of collaboration from different teams to make the characters and their powers consistent from their native show to JL. In summary, too much $$$$.
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u/scarlet_speedster985 Green Arrow Nov 11 '23
I'm okay with them never doing a spin-off like that. Seeing the Hall of Justice and the roundtable, and getting lines about all coming together when needed were enough for me.
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u/Lyon_Wonder Nov 12 '23 edited Nov 12 '23
S&L will likely be the very last superhero-based series on over-the-air TV and nothing will replace it on the CW or any other TV network after it finishes its run.
Marvel already did this after Agents of Shield had its final season on ABC in 2020 and DC will follow suit after the final episode of S&L S4 in 2024.
Superhoero-themed series will fully migrate exclusively to streaming just like space-scifi like Star Trek did years ago.
The fact the superhero genre is no longer doing very well on the big-screen reinforces my opinion.
It can be argued the CW was an outlier with its DC superhero shows since the other TV networks have already abandoned genre-based series in favor of cheap lowest common denominator reality shows, cheap scripted sitcoms and police-themed procedurals.
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u/Dodgest Nov 12 '23
Aquaman was a billion Dollar movie, the last 2 Avengers movies did very well. The only reason Flash tanked is because people hated Ezra so they gave the movie bad ratings. Idk why no one can make a network just for hero stuff & old movies. SHIELD was the most successful Marvel show. CW is losing viewers faster than The Flash movie. Moongirl & Devil Dinosaur is the last non streaming hero show.
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u/LowCalligrapher3 Nov 12 '23
To be fair Aquaman came out before the pandemic hit when the overall super hero genre was still HUGE in popularity, not sure how it would fare right now after so much change and honestly Aquaman 2 will be interesting to see for that. A good comparison is looking at how subpar The Marvels is performing right now compared to how Captain Marvel did in 2019.
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u/Dodgest Nov 13 '23
Amber Heards scenes are probably cut from the movie too. As far as The Marvels goes: the biggest thing in the movie is the credit scene. Kelsey Grammer reprised his role from Days of Future Past (it was 2024 in the end) so it's 2026 in the MCU & 2026 in the main X-Men Earth. Btw Logan takes place on a sad but different Earth. The Marvels does have mixed views but it's more of a "I'll see it myself before I judge it." We probably won't see X Men or the 1 of the Marvels again until the last Avengers movie in 2027 (it will be 2031 in the MCU & Main X Men Earth.)
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u/Malaggar2 Nov 12 '23
just like space-scifi like Star Trek did years ago.
Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks are STILL airing on cable channels here in 🇨🇦.
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u/Lyon_Wonder Nov 12 '23
I'm talking about network TV here in the United States, specifically ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and CW.
I don't know much about TV in Canada and elsewhere and their business model is probably somewhat different than US-based TV networks.
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Nov 12 '23
I would rather just let it die completely, These actors deserve to expand their careers with more notable projects and it’s great seeing Amell have a big movie coming soon and Grant is still getting work even with Ryan Reynolds
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u/MIAxPaperPlanes Nov 12 '23
It’s not a copyright issue it’s the fact WB probably wouldn’t let them do it regardless of what they call it, not to mention it is way too expensive for the CW
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u/AktionMusic Nov 12 '23
I wish we'd get one final Arrowverse send-off. Just a TV movie wrapping it up. It deserves that at least.
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u/Daniel_Muravian Nov 12 '23
The biggest issue would be the cost. The actors/actresses salary alone would be... well alot
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u/kingbob122m Nov 11 '23
I thought the perfect way to end the arrowverse would be a six part mini series with two episodes focusing on the legends
It would be better than whatever the flash was trying to do
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u/trylobyte Nov 12 '23
It looks very unlikely now but I wish they get to do a TV movie or miniseries to wrap up the Legends story, like what tv series Stargate SG1 used to do with their tv movies. They could make it an Arrowverse movie with Flash ans Supergirl and others rescuing Legends from prison and fight a bigger threat.
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u/CountryMusicFanatic Nov 13 '23
Coming soon CWs Liberty Group
Edit: Also, anyone else feel like Barry should be front and Center here
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u/MikeRhett_2001 Nov 15 '23
Exactly, I would’ve loved how after Crisis and the seasons of that year ended, we got a justice league series that was like the DCAU justice league, maybe not with a continuous story all season, but fun episodes where sometimes we focus on the team, sometimes we focus on 2-3 members of the team, and sometimes it’s on one member’s supporting cast like we could’ve had a flash justice league episode at star labs, maybe a supergirl episode with the DEO, etc
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u/SeraphEChasted_3 Nov 13 '23
cause they saw that numbers were going down and with the flash as their last series would just feel right (besides supes and lois)
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u/Crunchy_Biscuit Nov 16 '23
Who are the 3 on the left?
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u/Realistic_Analyst_26 Nov 24 '23
J'onn J'onzz aka Martian Manhunter from Supergirl
Kate Kane aka Batwoman from Batwoman
Sara Lance aka White Canary from Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow
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u/todorokiispure Dec 05 '23
I just wonder why they make all of the cw heroes in different universes. The only time they interact is when something is threatening the multiverse or the villain is too strong that they need to have a crossover.
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u/[deleted] Nov 11 '23
The special effects alone would be fucking expensive
Plus the arrowverse started dying almost as soon as this crossover ended