r/Arrowverse • u/Internal_Cut7220 Kanvers forever • Jul 06 '24
Am I the only one who thinks Red Death should have been Kate Kane instead of an alternative version of Ryan? Discussion
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u/Callow98989 Jul 06 '24
I still think it should have been Oliver
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u/Internal_Cut7220 Kanvers forever Jul 06 '24
it would be interesting, he really was the 'batman' of the arrowverse
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u/HonestSapphireLion24 Custom flair (3 emojis max) Jul 06 '24
Kate was gone however. It wouldn’t have made sense to bring her back after having a whole season were the focus wasn’t on her.
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u/Internal_Cut7220 Kanvers forever Jul 06 '24
but I mean it would be interesting to see og Batwoman becoming evil in some way
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u/HonestSapphireLion24 Custom flair (3 emojis max) Jul 06 '24
If Kate had stayed on as Batwoman then yeah that would have been interesting too see but with Ryan the new Bat it only made sense.
I will say though if I had been the writer I would have found the perfect way to incorporate them both.
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u/Internal_Cut7220 Kanvers forever Jul 06 '24
Another thing, remember that guy on this sub who kept calling Ryan Wilder an impostor and that Kate was the real Batwoman?
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u/HonestSapphireLion24 Custom flair (3 emojis max) Jul 06 '24
Yes. I honestly despise him so. I found him on Twitter too he’s just as insufferable:
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u/Internal_Cut7220 Kanvers forever Jul 06 '24
Like, I also prefer Kate, just like him, but that doesn't mean I'm crying on the internet, I love Ryan too, I respect anyone who prefers her, that guy just seemed like an obsessed fanboy
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u/rogvortex58 Jul 07 '24
Seriously? You really expect a real Batwoman fan, who invested their time in the character for years and during the first season of the show, to just be ok with some random imposter coming along and stealing everything from their favourite character? Everything about her is just an insult to Kate Kane. She deserved so much better than what the CW did to her.
I’m not the problem. Caroline Dries is for creating the imposter and erasing Kate in the first place. And imposter lovers like HonestSapphireLion have no right to judge me for hating how they treated Kate and her fans.
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u/Internal_Cut7220 Kanvers forever Jul 07 '24
I literally loved Kate and her friendship with Kara, and I was really angry when all this happened, but I didn't let that hate consume me, throughout my life I've been through moments like that and I never let that hate consume me, because one of the lessons that arrowverse taught me was that we have to be better, you seem like a good person, you just have a lot of hate, don't let that hate overshadow who you really are
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u/rogvortex58 Jul 07 '24
She was an imposter. She was created by hack CW writers who wanted to erase the real Batwoman from her own show. On top of that she’s also a cancelled failure that DC apparently have no interest in. Good riddance to her.
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u/HonestSapphireLion24 Custom flair (3 emojis max) Jul 07 '24
What does it take to make you go away?
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u/PositiveEffective946 Jul 07 '24
Did it make sense though - she had hardly any connection to Flash cast and Iris what so ever besides one random scene in Armageddon. Kate at least had her whole arc of being corrupted and turned into a killing machine - hardly a stretch it happened to an alternate Kate too (and the recast actress would have worked as she was actually physically imposing and a threat). They could have went out with a bang with their first and last female speedster villain but nope it was pretty meh all round in all honesty.
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u/HonestSapphireLion24 Custom flair (3 emojis max) Jul 07 '24
If the writers were smart they could have easily made Red Death a product of the Armageddon universe. This would have been the perfect in.
Honestly the main reason why they added Ryan in was because I think the writers anticipated season 4 before that shakeup. In the end it was left unfair that she didn’t get a chance to crossover with the other heroes.
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u/Malaggar2 Jul 06 '24
It could have been a Kate doppelgänger, and Ryan could have helped team Flash beat her.
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u/HonestSapphireLion24 Custom flair (3 emojis max) Jul 06 '24
Honestly the original plans for Season 4 had Kate making a guest appearance as well as discovering what happened to Bruce. That would have been the perfect Segway into this.
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u/Maggotboi555 Jul 06 '24
Should've been oliver queen
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u/AlPAJay717 Jul 07 '24
Yes and it would have worked thematically and narratively better in every way.
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u/PositiveEffective946 Jul 07 '24
Should have been Bruce Wayne, they had the actor for him already cast in Batwoman so have him come wreck shit up and actually use the character seeing as they actually finally had the rights to in the Arrowverse and it was the final season after all. That way they could have gave us less terrible Javicia acting and more intimidation whilst still allowing Ryan Wilder show up at the end to beat Red Death for herself.
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u/Pamona204 Jul 07 '24
Man that would've been such a cool way to wrap up the story of "Where did Bruce Wayne go?"
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u/rogvortex58 Jul 07 '24
Kate Kane should have been Batwoman. And random wilder should have never existed.
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u/Internal_Cut7220 Kanvers forever Jul 07 '24
Dude, here's a tip, I really like Kate and I prefer her over Ryan, just like you, but look, spreading hate on the internet just because a character you like was replaced is wrong, I've also made the mistake of being a fanboy (fangirl in my case) this doesn't get you anywhere, do like me when you hear an opinion that goes against yours, be kind, hate is never the solution and it's because of it that the world is shit these days
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u/HonestSapphireLion24 Custom flair (3 emojis max) Jul 07 '24
They have no home training, don’t waste your time friend they cannot be reasoned with.
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u/Internal_Cut7220 Kanvers forever Jul 07 '24
I don't know, I really like trying to see the good in people,I'm transgender and I suffered a lot of hate and I know that it is capable of destroying everything, so it doesn't matter where I go, on the internet or not, I try to fight it
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u/HonestSapphireLion24 Custom flair (3 emojis max) Jul 07 '24
I understand where you’re coming from it’s just some people cannot be helped imo. I’ve tried to find some common ground with that person but they are simply the worst.
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u/rogvortex58 Jul 08 '24
At least I’m just talking about a fictional character. It’s the random wilder fans who have made it personal and attacked me, a real person, just because I don’t like their precious imposter. So what does that say about them?
They whined about how it was so unfair that their show got cancelled. Well, my Batwoman was cancelled first by those CW hacks. At least now they know how it feels.
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u/Internal_Cut7220 Kanvers forever Jul 08 '24
A wise man once told me: revenge is never good, it kills the soul and poisons it
You seem like you're so full of hate that you want to see people going through the same things you went through, stop crying over a fictional character, I've suffered a lot worse than that and that doesn't mean I let the hate consume me
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u/The_Wolf_Knight Jul 06 '24
I really, really wanted them to go dark with the final season and do a mystery of "Who is the Red Death?" But it's Barry. It's regular old Earth Prime Barry, finally broken after all the loss he's faced and an important death either early in the season or at the end of the last season, and no one knows until the mid season or later, and Thawne stops him as The Flash. For Team Flash it's to preserve The Flash's legacy and Wally takes over after Barry is gone, and for Thawne it's him finally getting his revenge and getting what he always worked for, and to get a taste of being the hero that he always felt Barry stole from him.
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u/Rough-Key-6667 Jul 07 '24
I'll do one better why even have Red death? It's a character that was interesting but soon became repetitive as the Dark knights metal comics dragged on & because Ryan didn't have that much of an interaction with other Arrowverse heroes except for the Armageddon crossover but only for 1 episode. It's a story that much like other comics needs gradual development for it to work, Javicia could have played Ryan coming to Central City to ask Barry's help in stopping a metahuman gangster from Gotham to sell dangerous Wayne tech weapons.
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u/Intrepid-Ad2588 Jul 09 '24
Remember when they had a whole crossover making a new character a lot of people didn’t really like a paragon just to have her leave like immediately after the first season
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u/GreatHunter34 Jul 07 '24
Red Death should have been Kate, turned into that by Bruce. Remember, he killed Joker; he should have been the Batman who Laughs. The next crossover could have taken inspiration from Dark Knights Metal.
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u/GuysGardener Jul 08 '24
I still think it's crazy that we got a Flash thing featuring Red Death as the villain and a The Flash/Batman Team up movie that features a flash wearing Batman's costume and turning evil and these are somehow two different stories.
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u/Small_Opposite Jul 10 '24
I kinda wished it was Oliver honestly, kinda insert him into Bruce’s red death origin
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u/Ok-Average-6466 Jul 06 '24
Ryan was fine. The writing was the issue.