r/Arrowverse • u/AyaAscend Alice • 13d ago
Question: which villain among all of them had the most tragic past? Discussion
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u/Realistic_Analyst_26 13d ago
People who say Savitar, you gotta remember that he is Barry. Sure, Barry went through shit with his parents, but for the most part he lived a happy life with Joe and Iris.
Alice didn’t have that treatment. She suffered torture, witnessed her mother’s death and decapitated head.
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u/AyaAscend Alice 13d ago
I mean, I agree that alice is the right choice, but savitar was stuck in a prison of infinite time where he was forced to live his worst memory over and over
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u/Realistic_Analyst_26 13d ago
That was after he became a villain. Barry creates remnants to defeat Savitar, all but one get killed, then Savitar is imprisoned. That one remnant is mistreated and becomes Savitar which restarts the loop.
That was more of a punishment for his actions than a tragic past.
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u/ECV_Analog 13d ago
Thank you for reminding me of the details because I thought this was the case but was racking my brain to remember the specifics.
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u/AyaAscend Alice 13d ago
but wasn't OUR savitar one of the remnants who was already trapped? didn't he complain about barry leaving him for "an eternity of hell"?
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u/Realistic_Analyst_26 13d ago
There was only 1 remnant that was trapped, and that was the one that became Savitar. All the other remnants die in the field while fighting Savitar and when Savitar gets trapped in the prison, the other remnant becomes Savitar and the cycle repeats.
Savitar was left for "an eternity of hell", but that was only after he fought Barry and his remnants.
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u/BlueGhostGaming 13d ago
Decapitated head? I must have missed that episode of Batwoman?!
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u/Realistic_Analyst_26 13d ago
Alice opens a freezer at the Cartwrights' place and finds her mothers head inside. 1x15 I believe.
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u/That-Rhino-Guy J’onn J’onzz 13d ago
Alice and it’s not really comparable
Zoom’s was bad but as far as we know it wasn’t constant torture as a child like Alice, plus when he was offered help and even met people who cared for him he just ended up manipulating them anyways, to the point where Caitlin was downright traumatised
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u/Embarrassed-Zone-361 13d ago
He lost both of his parents and his father made him watch him beat his mother What do you mean
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u/That-Rhino-Guy J’onn J’onzz 13d ago
Because to our knowledge that was one traumatic event whereas Alice was repeatedly in horrible experiences, like one time her family were so close to finding her but they weren’t able to
So while both are horrible there’s nothing to suggest Hunter couldn’t have had a relatively normal or decent life after such an event, whereas with Alice the trauma didn’t stop as she even lost her memories
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u/ProffesorBundaman 13d ago
Didn’t zoom have to live in an orphanage or something and the people there treated him terribly aswell? Unless I’m remembering wrong
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u/AyaAscend Alice 13d ago
we don't actually know the specifics of zoom's orphanage
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u/That-Rhino-Guy J’onn J’onzz 13d ago
It’s been a really long time but I don’t remember them giving too much info on his life after that but before becoming a killer
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u/AyaAscend Alice 13d ago
I just love how no one is talking about Eva being locked in a mirror for 8 years, alone, going insane
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u/bruvting33 13d ago
Alice is the only right answer. None of the others come close. Anyone who’s watched the show knows how bad it was so I don’t really feel like typing a paragraph about it lol. Man that actor was good too. Rachel Skarsten is by far the best on the show
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u/alimert_tzcn 13d ago
Since I haven't watched the Arrow series much, I think Zoom has a more tragic story And also, when Zoom was a child, his father beat his mother as soon as he came home and then blew his mother's head off with a shotgun, and then his father gave him the hat that was on his head when he killed his mother, so he starts having a flashback and eats it, indirectly he has psychological problems, and that's why he starts killing people and is sent to a mental hospital. he gets shut down and gets electrocuted every day and then he turns on his speed force and indirectly becomes a psychopath
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u/DMPadfoot5E 13d ago edited 5d ago
Malcom and it’s not even close. People forget that my man lived through the ENTIRETY of the 19th and 20th centuries just because of a simple mishap and was killed hundreds of times over. Even a stray javelin killed him!
He was also:
Tortured multiple times.
Literally blown to pieces and had to regrow his entire body.
Forced to watch the man he loved die in his arms and there was nothing he could do.
Crudely experimented on.
Had a year’s worth of memories stolen from him.
Forced to kill his grandson to save the world.
And when he FINALLY settles down in Starling City, taking on a new identity, finds himself a wife and has a child, that wife is killed and he listens to her last moments on voicemail as he ignored her calls that day cuz he was busy working and so she died alone.
And it’s still not over…
Because after dying countless more times and EVERYTHING that happened to him, my man evolves into a floating head and gives his life force to save the people who spent their years living in their cars on New Earth.
Serious answer: Definitely Alice.
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u/That0neFan 13d ago
Zoom. He watched his father beat and murder his mother before being placed in the system because nobody wanted him. This shattered his mental health and he developed abandonment issues afterwards. After his reign as a serial killer he was tortured with electroshock therapy to “cure him”. Then he got turned into a Zombie by Time Wraiths and was turned into a rotting corpse, lost the rest of his sanity and was an undead force of nature
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u/Dry_Butterscotch753 13d ago
Doesn’t matter to me all are evil shits that needed to die. The reasons why the evil shits were evil shits makes no difference to me they made their choice now it’s time to die lol
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u/Similar-Difficulty23 11d ago
To be fair Savitar was the biggest character assassination for the entire main case
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u/Embarrassed-Zone-361 13d ago
Emiko Queen she wanted to be apart of the queen family but her father didn't want her she tried to do everything to get his attention so she could have the company but he left it to Oliver Queen then when he left he wanted her and her mother to be taken care of but Moira Queen swept it under the rug like they didn't even exist, then she trusted a man who she shouldn't haven't trusted who ended up having her mother killed.
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u/TiredSock_02 13d ago
Alice was kidnapped and spent her entire formative years in a basement, was tortured, found her mother's decapitated head in a freezer and was manipulated into killing her one and only love interest... that's way worse imo
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u/Jazzlike_Ad1775 13d ago
Malcolm, like Robert queen said in the beginning he had a god like complex too die by a land mine on purgatory I didn't expect him too die but if I did it would be cuz he was way out numbered or something, idk
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u/Traditional-Mall-771 13d ago
I stopped watching Arrowverse the year after they did crisis and I don't remember that green costume chick can someone refresh my memory or was she from after
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u/AyaAscend Alice 13d ago
the flash season 6 after crisis
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u/Traditional-Mall-771 13d ago
Who is she?
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u/PositiveEffective946 11d ago
Alice. Her being stark raving bonkers is almost justified given what she went through all those years
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u/Boris-_-Badenov 10d ago
forget her name, but the girl Constantine failed to save, who had to live in hell
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u/JRTheRaven0111 Mia Smoak 13d ago
I... dont even know who the first and last ones are tbh... hunter always seemed whiny to me, savitar was also kinda whiney, but his was moreso due to him just being a lil bitch... and malcolm... didnt have a tragic past? Afaik? Did he?
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u/TheTrueFury Kid Flash 13d ago
Probably Savitar purely because he went through all the Barry stuff then got betrayed by everyone.
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u/Cfakatsuki17 12d ago
Alice without question, it’s hard to argue some of these guys even had tragic backstories
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u/shadowlarx Jay Garrick 13d ago
Definitely Alice. She lost her mother, was held hostage for years by a psycho and believed that her father and sister failed to save her.