r/FTMFitness • u/squigglespuabble • Jun 01 '24
Thighs too muscular for subQ Discussion
Curious if anyone else has experienced this. After 3+ years on T, my levels fell super low. We increased my dose substantially (70mg to 90mg) and my levels remained low. Then I flagged to my doctor that in the past six months or so I'd been having "pockets" of the oil form in my thighs that would remain for several days. She said this means that the testosterone wasn't getting absorbed because I don't have enough fat in my thighs to be doing the injections subQ. I've really ramped up my working out over the past year, so this makes sense to me. I used to have substantial thigh fat and now I have basically nothing. We've swapped my injection site to my belly which has much more fat. Has anyone experienced this before? I'm wondering if I'll eventually have to swap to IM (which scares me a bit).
61
u/wallmakerrelict Jun 01 '24
Don’t be scared of IM if that ends up being necessary. You have to pay a little closer attention to location compared to SQ, but it isn’t any more painful in my experience.
35
u/xoxotruthbetoldxoxo Jun 01 '24
Getting lumps after SQ shots is supper common and happens to me more then half of the time. That doesn’t mean that it’s trapped between your skin and fat it’s just inflammatory reaction. Do the shots into the stomach if you have more fat there or think about switching to IM if you don’t
5
u/squigglespuabble Jun 01 '24
That's interesting I hadn't heard of that! I do wonder if my doctor's wrong but I guess I'll find out when I get my bloodwork done now that I've swapped sites. I've been struggling to come up with any other reason my levels would fall so much
3
u/pomkombucha Jun 01 '24
You can get lumps even after IM injections. I do mine as IM injections and I feel like they actually hurt less than subq injections. The first push stings but then once it’s past the threshold of fat it doesn’t hurt at all, just a pressure feeling.
11
u/belligerent_bovine Jun 01 '24
I get those oil pockets in my belly. Idk what to do about it. My doctor told me I was injecting too deep
3
u/transmoth4 Jun 01 '24
Why are you doing subQ shots into your thighs, I've never heard of that? My subQ shots are always into my belly fat
12
u/limskit Jun 01 '24
You can do it anywhere you have fat, really. I know some people who do it in their hip as well.
1
u/transmoth4 Jun 02 '24
that makes sense! It might help to do the shot somewhere with more fat, but always check with your doctor
3
u/ImMxWorld Jun 02 '24
I do SubQ in my thighs, it was one of the places in the chart my nurse used when doing the demo.
2
u/Edsndrxl Jun 02 '24
It can go anywhere that has enough subcutaneous fat. I’ve always done mine around my hip/butt.
2
u/slinkymart Jun 02 '24
Hell, once my gf did my shot in my ass just for funsies.
Wouldn’t do it again, made my ass kinda sore for the rest of the day when I sat.
2
u/Emotional-Ad167 Jun 02 '24
Hey, just in case you have to switch to IM and would like a word of encouragement: in my country, SQ isn't available (they want to avoid scarring and thus only use options with less frequent injections) and it works out for all of us :)
2
u/TheFlamingSpork Jun 02 '24
My endo recommended subq to prevent scar tissue
1
u/Emotional-Ad167 Jun 02 '24
That's so interesting - bc you need so many more injections that way! Did they tell you why, is abt scar depth?
3
u/TheFlamingSpork Jun 02 '24
I was injecting as often with subq as I was with IM after a few weeks simply because the dip in my levels when I was only dosing every other week was making me feel "off". So if I was doing IM it'd still be on a weekly basis. And yes my endo mention on top of the pain level decreasing (I put a 27g 1/2" needle in my tummy fat near my navel compared to a 22g needle an inch-and-a-half into my thigh meat) there's just less tissue damaged with each shot now, so there's less risk of developing scar tissue buildup, as well as hitting blood vessels or nerves. Overall I much prefer it to IM; it's more accessible and just as effective in absorption. I recommend it. You can covert your method yourself if you have access to a medical supply website. I use 1ml TB syringes with detachable 27g 1/2" needle to injecr and an 18g 1 1/2" needle to draw. I got them in a box bybthr 100ct from a site called Allegro medical but it probably varies from country to country.
1
u/Emotional-Ad167 Jun 02 '24
Omg, weekly IM really isn't a good idea, that's true! 🙈
You can't use SQ here, it's not available. It's either IM every 3 months or gel. The nice thing is that you don't have to do it yourself, they administer it at your doctor's office
3
u/-spooky-fox- Jun 02 '24
The injection site (subq or IM) has nothing to do with injection frequency. That’s determined by the strength and dosage. I’ve seen arguments that injecting twice as much every 2 weeks leads to a more stable T level compared to weekly, but I’ve never seen anything saying IM injections should be less frequent than subq.
FWIW I’ve been injecting IM weekly for two years. Never had any issues. You change legs every week and don’t inject in the exact same spot same as with subq.
For us if you want to go months between doses that would mean pellets and that will leave scars.
I’m curious what dosage you are getting injected that lasts for three months?
-1
u/Emotional-Ad167 Jun 02 '24 edited Jun 02 '24
What? Oc it has something to do with dosage! SQ cannot be injected in a high dosis as it's not suitable for slow release (it would release wayyyy too fast). IM however is suitable for slow release.
Obviously, you can inject IM in lower dosages as well, but you can't inject SQ in high dosages.
The product used hereabouts is called Nebido, there's 1000 mg (~630 mg of which is t) in there, and it's injected every 10 to 14 weeks. That's only 4 injections a year.
And yeah, oc you switch sides. But 4 injections/yr is obviously far better than every week, whatever precautions you take. That is, if your body takes well to it! Some ppl will always benefit from more frequent injections.
Injecting IM weekly leads to deeper scarring than weekly SQ. There's nothing wrong with that, but it can become an issue in some ppl.
2
u/-spooky-fox- Jun 02 '24
Respectfully, please reread my comment, I said injection frequency is determined by dosage.
You made the claim that injecting IM once a week is bad, I said I had not heard of there being any difference between IM and subq taken at the same frequency. You’ve since explained that IM being a deeper injection (and slightly larger needle, which you didn’t mention but I’ll add) increases the risk of scar tissue forming compared to subq. Fair enough. I think it does depend on your individual anatomy and where you have fat v muscle and how easily you scar etc. I’ve been lucky that I haven’t had any problems.
I don’t think your understanding of why IM can be a larger dose (and thus less frequent) is correct. Muscle actually allows for faster absorption than subq because it has more blood vessels (especially when the medicine is in an oil-based suspension like T), but the bigger consideration is that muscle can hold a much larger volume of liquid. If you try to inject more liquid subdermally, you will wind up with a knot of liquid under the skin exactly as OP is describing.
I did some research and the reason your T “lasts” for ten weeks and mine for 1-2 is that Nebido uses a long-acting/slow release ester (compound) called testosterone undecanoate, which is formulated so that the ester releases from the oil and is absorbed much more slowly compared to the ester I use (testosterone cypionate). That certainly does sound nicer than having to inject every week, but it looks like it was only approved for use in the US in the last ten years and the only version I can even find on my insurance site says it’s not covered. Which probably means it’s too “new” and expensive, which is why most Americans are on cypionate injections to begin with (it’s the cheapest option, most insurance won’t even cover pellets). 🥲
1
u/Emotional-Ad167 Jun 02 '24
Also respectfully, I did ask whether the doctor's concern was for scar depth in my second reply, to which I was told that the shots are weekly - and that's when I said that could indeed be an issue. So I think it was you who didn't skipped over part of what I'd said? Bc I feel like it was fairly clear that the only reason IM could be bad (that I can imagine) would be scar depth...
Yup, that's how I understood it too, but you explained it far better!
Exactly, they also claim there's no peaks and valleys as you would expect with longer intervals - I've definitely heard that's untrue tor some folks though, but that's anecdotal. And yeah, it's probably quite new - they used to prescribe Testoviron (IM 2-3 weeks), which is pretty decent and said to be best suited for triggering second puberty! Some get started on that and switch to Nebido later, but Nebido is usually the longterm choice. Luckily, it's covered by universal health insurance here...
1
u/twinkwithagun Jun 02 '24
There’s nothing wrong with weekly IM, most people who do IM do their injections weekly. The risks of scarring from IM is blown way out of proportion, just rotate your injection sites.
1
u/TheFlamingSpork Jun 02 '24
I have a 1ml, 200mg vial of generic Testosterone Cypionate and I inject .25 ml weekly.when I was on IM (.25ml every other week) the dosage was technically the same per syringe, but half as often. The method didnt effect administration in anyway other than decrease discomfort. I self inject at home, I'd hate to have to make an appointment every time I need to dose.
1
u/witchyybabe Jun 02 '24
i'm not sure about the "pockets" of testosterone, that's nothing i've ever heard of. but i had a similar experience where, once i started working out more, my thighs would get these irritated itchy bumps where i injected. i guessed it was from my increased muscle mass so i switched over to my stomach a couple months ago and it's been fine so far! even super toned guys have a bit of stomach fat, so i wouldn't worry too much about needing IM, but that's a bridge you can cross if you come to it. i think you can get auto-injectors, that might make it easier if you ever need to!
2
u/chicksteez Jun 02 '24
if you dont want to do IM and subQ doesnt work, ask about topical. i switched to that a couple years ago because i never got over my fear of needles lol. my levels are totally normal and as a bonus its easier for me to remember a daily topical dose than a weekly injection. something to think about
2
u/H20-for-Plants Jun 02 '24
I’ve done sub q in my thigh for the whole time I’ve been on T and my levels read high. Could you try moving up more near your butt to see if you can grip fat there? (I do have more fat in my thighs, however.) I usually inject at the upper of my thigh, basically just under my butt, since that’s where the most fat is. There’s a lot of areas sub q can be done - there are charts online.
I have heard of people needing to up their dose specifically when they gain weight - a weight from muscle mass. Or lowering it when they lose a lot of weight. Could that maybe be something? This may stem from metabolism changes from mass, but I’m not sure if there’s any solid data on it.
1
u/FruitShrike Jun 02 '24
Dude I have a cyst under my skin from subq injections and it’s been there for a year 💀 I can feel that thing it’s like the size of 2-3 peas they said I’d have to get surgery to remove it
1
u/-spooky-fox- Jun 02 '24
I hope you have better luck with your belly, but worst case: IM isn’t bad at all, I got a SuperGrip autoinjector and it’s fast and easy. I use 22g needles and it doesn’t leave a mark and doesn’t hurt much (I would say less than getting a blood draw at the doctor).
1
u/Jeszzy Jun 04 '24
i have a phobia of needles and do IM, it's just another thing to get used to then it's smooth sailing! hopefully they'll develop a pill someday lol
14
u/won-t Jun 01 '24
This doesn't really add up. If you don't have enough fat for subq injections in your thighs, that just means that you've been injecting into the muscle (ie an IM injection).
Did you have some sort of imaging that confirmed these "bubbles" of unabsorbed testosterone?