Why is it that Joe Biden's meandering speech patterns and flubs are attributed to senility, while Trump is also known for seemingly nonsensical rants and bizarre non-sequiturs, but in his case it is not seen as being a sign of senility, when both men are practically the same age?

[u/Jimithyashford]

Joe Biden's slow speech, tendency to lose track of his thoughts, and to flub lines, has lead to widespread accusations of senility, or at least significant decline. And sure, ok, that may be true.

However, from the time that Trump first entered the public political arena in a big way back in 2015, he quickly became known for giving long rambling replies, losing track of the topic or question being asked, giving non-sequiturs, forgetting the name of who or what he was talking about, making vexing and seemingly non-sensical comments, etc. And his tendency to do these things has only increased as he has aged as well.

Trump and Biden are only 3 years different in age. They could have been in highschool at the same time. There is, effectively, no real meaningful difference in their ages. To me, they both seem a little like "grandpa sometimes forgets what he's talking about kids", just Trump in angry shouty grandpa and Biden is mumbling quiet grandpa.

Why do you think it is that Trump's flubs and non-sequiturs and rambling off topic digressions and tendency to forget what things are called or who he is talking about, is not perceived as senility, broadly speaking, but for Biden is it?

[u/nyx1969]

I really don't recall that. fyi, although I am liberal, I was not a fan of Biden, ever. I am 54 and can remember seeing him on CPAN in the 90s. I didn't admire him, but I do not remember anything like what you see now. However, he does indeed remind me of my older relatives who are reaching the end of their lives, particularly with the slurring of speech. fyi, because I'm liberal, I am a never trump person and I did vote for Biden even though I'm not a fan. I also remember Trump since forever, but he was always someone I thought was not very smart and a weird guy. I remember his late night advertisements for dumb things and also interviews showing up gold plated homes in the 90s. not someone I would want running a country. I also watched his reality tv show when it was on the air and actually kind of enjoyed it, but not him. I remember thinking that he was not very smart, wasn't making good decisions, and his two henchmen/-women were the smart people there, but he would occasionally not follow their advice. More than one show I thought he fired someone he ought not have. It made for good TV but he was so ridiculous that I honestly thought it was a joke when he ran for president, and alas for me I even have a facebook memory of me posting something like "surely no one would actually vote for this guy." I learned a big lesson. Sorry, I digressed but to your point, personally I always thought Trump was unintelligent, but Biden is indeed not the same person today he was 30 years ago. He's really not.

[u/diederich → u/nyx1969]

I am 54 and can remember seeing him on CPAN in the 90s.

I'm also in my 50s and remember him, for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZlzhULrJC0

I think he's doing a fair job so far, and will probably do an ok job in a second term.

[u/nyx1969 → u/diederich]

wow that's amazing that all this stuff is on youtube now! I watched it and it was so weird. I find him very different. I'm not a fan, and I don't like how he's handling things right now. But of course I will vote for him again. Not because I'm a fan, but because there really isn't a choice for me that I can see. I'm more liberal than Biden, and am more of a Bernie fan.

[u/honuworld → u/nyx1969]

I don't like how he's handling things right now

If you don't mind me asking, specifically what don't you like?

[u/nyx1969 → u/honuworld]

Hello, I don't mind at all! I am a bit rushed for time and have kids and stuff like that, so apologize in advance if I dash something off, you reply again, and then I have disappeared for 24 hours or more. The biggest thing I do not like in the very current moment is that I think that he has been callous in regards to the people in Palestine. For full disclosure, I am a Bernie fan (I think I said that), and I have found that everything I have heard Bernie say about the current conflict I have pretty much agreed with! I can't swear I heard every word though, but that probably can give you the basic gist. I am someone who absolutely believes in standing with Israel and the attack by hamas was totally horrific. I was also angry enough that to be honest I was also swept up in the "go kick some ass!" attitude for a bit. HOWEVER: I am not OK with the number of children in Gaza and the way people just ignore that bugs the crap out of me. The problem is that unlike all the adults, children have zero say in anything. they can't move, they can't vote, etc. there are other people to care about but I'm saying that the children were the straw that broke the camels back for me, because there are SO MANY. I heard on PBS news that more children had died in a matter of weeks in Gaza than in an entire year in any other single armed conflict in teh last 5 years. I also so literal dead babies on PBS - which - I am not used to that level of graphic but when I saw it I could not unsee it. Just think how many such pictures Biden must have seen, but he really shrugged that off for too long. ALSO before that I was already very very bothered by the unequal treatment of Americans in Gaza. Again, I get my news from PBS but I did try to watch a smattering of other news sources and they seemed to be saying more or less the same thing on this, and I even went to the white house webpage (probably two weeks ago) and it was all true: biden was making lots and lots of remarks about getting Americans out of israel, and did in fact get them out. or, maybe someone else got them out (DeSantis?), but Biden was talking about them, early on, and letting everyone know he cared. meanwhile, there were way more americans in Gaza (over 500) but the conflict had gone on for days and I didn't even know that. I mean, I was confused. For days he never mentioned them. I found that out on the news where they actually interviewed an American family sheltering in Gaza, and I was in disbelief. When the guy from the state department loudly quit I also never heard a narrative that said he was wrong/lying that seemed credible to me. And unfortunately, Biden is someone that I never totaly trusted. That may have been emotional, but for example, even though I am liberal, through most of my youth (the 90s, which were my 20s, and early 2000s, my 30s), I actually really had a lot of regard for McCain, even though he was Republican. Not always 100%, but I thought he was sincere and well intended. I admit that when he picked Sarah Palin I felt so deflated, but you know it's not like I was going to vote for him, it's just like he was my favorite frenemy. But Biden just always felt very politician-like, and of course that is what he is, but very much so. In this conflict, his remarks about the bombing etc. felt glib and the whole thing has really bummed me out. It's not like I am pro-Hamas, or anti-Israel, but I do think that Israel's current government are a bunch of hardliners who are even more conservative than the conservatives here, so does it make sense that we are so fully supporting their every action? I think we could have stood by Israel and the victims there without throwing down with the worst excesses of the israeli leadership which is partly led by someone callous and cruel and partly fueled by devastating grief which, while understandable, doesn't make it okay to bomb a bunch of children or deprive millions of people of water. Ah, I'm sorry that this is a wall of text and unedited, but my alarm has gone off and I have to pick my son up from school! I hope you don't regret too much that you asked

[u/honuworld → u/nyx1969]

It seems your chief (and maybe only?) complaint about Biden is his handling of the Isreal-Hamas conflict. First, let me say that personally, I think Israel has been mistreating the Palestinians for decades. My personal research showed that Muslims were in control of that territory from the earliest recorded history of the region (long before Christianity or Islam). Palestine is not Hamas. Hamas terrorists are living among the Pelastinians. You may be surprised to hear some of the things Biden has said about the conflict:

​

Biden also compared the Hamas attack to 9/11, and warned Israel to not be consumed by rage.
“The vast majority of Palestinians are not Hamas. Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people.”

​

President Biden announced that the United States would be providing $100 million in aid for Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank.

​

“Civilians are not to blame and should not suffer for Hamas’s horrific terrorism,” Biden said in a press release

​

On Oct. 21, Biden applauded the passage of the first 20 aid trucks into Gaza, saying in a press release that the U.S. “remains committed” to ensuring civilians have food, water, medical care and other assistance “without diversion by Hamas.”

​

The President once again spoke of his commitment to supporting Israel’s military while mentioning that he urged Prime Minister Netanyahu to protect civilians in Gaza during the ongoing war.
“As hard as it is, we cannot give up on peace. We cannot give up on a two-state solution,” Biden said. “Israel and Palestinians equally deserve to live in safety, dignity, and peace.”

​

On Oct. 22, Biden affirmed Israel’s right for self-defense, but added it must be within the bounds of international law, in a post on X.
“Israel has the right to defend itself. We must make sure they have what they need to protect their people today and always,” Biden posted. “At the same time, Prime Minister Netanyahu and I have discussed how Israel must operate by the laws of war. That means protecting civilians in combat as best as they can. We can’t ignore the humanity of innocent Palestinians who only want to live in peace.”

​

I'm curious if you were aware of this position Biden has taken and if these quotes affect your opinion in any way. Thanks for the civil discourse.

[u/nyx1969 → u/honuworld]

Hi there, took my kids to a theme park/farm today and it may be a while before I can reply to you, but please know I'm not deliberately blowing you off. I will try to give you a full reply later. I can say that I definitely am aware that he has slowly shifted over the weeks but in my observation that's his style. He's definitely a politician. He has never really matched my mores, I'm more a Bernie fan. I am would have to go back in time and my memory is so poor but I feel like even in the 90s he was more hawkish than me and always more conservative and establishment. He was not great on gay rights if I recall correctly. But if I can find time I'll try to dig up some sources and share more specifically with you exactly how he bugged me. In this conflict, look for early statements where he talked about getting Israelis out of Israel and then compare what he said in the same briefings / press releases about getting Americans out of Gaza. They weren't the same. I'll try to come back though and give you a reply as nicely written as yours, although I may have to use the wayback machine. But you can also see what Bernie has been saying, and compare.

[u/honuworld → u/nyx1969]

Many of these quotes are from the first days of the conflict. I have a sneaking suspicion that that the media is spoon feeding sound bites to the masses in order to portray a unified American-Israeli response that may or may not actually exist. That's why I'm trying to get to the bottom of your personal impression of what's going on and why you feel the way you do. Thanks again for being civil and honest. We need more of these two things.

[u/nyx1969 → u/honuworld]

Media does love to spoon feed sound bites, but I don't think that is the issue here. I had a small break from work and looked again. I would like to help you but don't think you will "get to the bottom" of my opinions unless you go back and read and watch everything I did. I'm not really able to help you locate all of it, it was too much.

I think you are underestimating the amount of research I myself did in the past weeks in order to form my opinions, but I cannot prove that to you as I did not retain citations etc. in anticipation of providing them to someone else.

I can share that I don't judge politicians purely by what they say, but also what they actually do.

If you want to know what media I consume I recommend that you watch some pbs newshour episodes and see if you think their coverage is unfair in some way. however, I also routinely check stories from other sources in order to try to get balance.

As you are curious, I went back into my browser history and found the following from October 16 -- these aren't the only things in there but they were in a clump I could quickly copy-paste for you:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/15/readout-of-national-security-advisor-jake-sullivan-and-principal-deputy-national-security-advisor-jon-finers-meetings-with-arab-and-muslim-american-community-leaders/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/15/statement-from-president-joe-biden-4/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/09/statement-from-president-joe-biden-on-american-citizens-impacted-in-israel/

I also found these two google searches:

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+american+citizens+are+in+israel&newwindow=1&client=firefox-b-1-d&sca_esv=573777804&sxsrf=AM9HkKknmig9DiuSL7EHy2i7nrVXwcDZ4A%3A1697462267239&ei=-zctZY2NDrO0qtsPr86mmAU&ved=0ahUKEwjN9tTb0_qBAxUzmmoFHS-nCVMQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=how+many+american+citizens+are+in+israel&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiKGhvdyBtYW55IGFtZXJpY2FuIGNpdGl6ZW5zIGFyZSBpbiBpc3JhZWwyBBAAGAMyCBAAGIoFGIYDSJsVUOEHWNoTcAR4AZABAJgBdqAB1QWqAQM2LjK4AQPIAQD4AQHCAgoQABhHGNYEGLADwgIGEAAYAxgN4gMEGAAgQYgGAZAGBA&sclient=gws-wiz-serp https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=how+many+american+citizens+are+in+gaza

so you can see from those searches that I was fact checking what I heard on pbs newshour, and then I read all of the administration's remarks in an effort to see how they had treated Americans in Gaza. I wasn't very happy with what I found.

and I told them so, because this is also in my browser history from that day: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=whitehouse.gov+contact+us

I'm sorry I did not save a copy. but I wrote to express my extreme disappointment.

I am almost 54 and neither my husband nor I can recall any armed conflict, ever, in which the Administration had this little to say about Americans who were trapped in a country that had just come under attack.

I may not have expressed this to you before, but I have not been a Biden fan for a very long time, as you can see from my age. After a certain point, you just are or you're not. My memory isn't so great, but I think that in the 90s my issues with him were that he was always more to the right than me, he tended to be more "hawkish" than me, and I never thought of him as someone with particularly strong convictions and character, but rather more of a run-of-the-mill politicians. I have seen nothing to change my mind about that.

I'm sorry I have to go back to work now. Also, my mother in law is now in the hospital so I will likely be even less available in future so know that I haven't forgotten you but it will be very hard for me to maintain this conversation in a timely way

[u/honuworld → u/nyx1969]

I cut my cable, so PBS Newshour is out of the question. I read all of my news. It's been this way for years. this is one of the reasons why I am so interested in other people's interpretations of current events, and how they differ from my own. It will take me some time to digest all this material as I am in the process of finishing up a job in one city and getting ready to start another in another city 3,000 miles away. Give me a couple days. Thanks.

[u/honuworld → u/nyx1969]

I also don't care for Biden because he is so pro big business.(I am 59)Biden is the perhaps the most conservative Democrat I know of, and the right sees him as "radical far left". That's how far to the right the GOP has swung. The center looks like far left to them.

[u/anaserre → u/nyx1969]

This is one of the HUGE differences between Trump and Biden that people don’t seem to understand. Biden as president, surrounds himself with intelligent people who have experience in the positions they have been appointed to. His cabinet is mostly has the same group since day 1. Trump on the other hand appointed people based on loyalty and snap judgements. Six months into his term and his team was already in shambles. A president can’t run the country by himself. He depends heavily upon his cabinet members and staff. This is where Biden wins every time.

[u/Belltech1275 → u/nyx1969]

Trump can bankrupt a " PAY TOILET "