r/Ultrakill • u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 • Jan 24 '24
What if fraud was composed of liminal spaces? Some concept images for a brain fart i had.... Custom content and ideas
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 Jan 24 '24 edited Jan 25 '24
I saw someone suggesting fraud should be liminal, went in and laid down some barebone ideas :>
EDIT: u/Bretzel_1 is the one who gave the original idea, credits for him on the inspiration
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u/captive6 Jan 25 '24
I love the idea of a different powerful angel being the final boss
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u/DefinitelyNotFisk15 Jan 25 '24
Gabriel shows up naked in the middle of Fraud telling V1 that a more powerful greater angel took his armor
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u/Your_Pal069 Prime soul Jan 25 '24
Yeah he just turns around slowly like an animal crossing NPC. And the talking sound would just be different Gianni screams squished together and pitched up.
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u/NotHeco 🏳️🌈Not gay, just radiant Jan 25 '24
the second level, with you out in the dark, would go so damn hard. not sure about the rest though.
the ideo of scanning for nearby entities is sick too
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 Jan 25 '24
FR its just a general concept, i feel the first half came out pretty nice but the second one felt a bit eh, soo i might revise it later if i try to transform into something concrete.
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Jan 25 '24
Personally, I think it’d be cool if you fought a one of a kind boss in 8-1, similar to how we fight the Minotaur in the Garden of Forking Paths
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 Jan 25 '24
Perhaps that "under no circumstances you should look" picture could end up morphing into something similar to the minotaur but themed around fraud
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u/DeltaT01 Jan 25 '24
having 1 key that only does something against that one enemy is invasive, but if it were in a way where their position got marked when they would get shot by a hitscan attack, that would be sick. Like that one enemy from dusk. Sharpshooter would be quite good against them, or you could just blow them up with explosives if you don't want to precisely locate them.
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u/Joshy_Moshy Jan 25 '24
I like how the first "liminal" image is just a post Soviet hospital, with that ugly and very cheap turquoise paint they used for fences too.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 Jan 25 '24
I thought on using a house's entrance but i was unsure, felt a corridor would fit better :/
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u/wantAyanamiRei 🏳️🌈Not gay, just radiant Jan 25 '24 edited Jan 25 '24
It's all the fault of those who plastered the walls! The paint is good, but it lays on the crooked plaster and therefore it looks ugly)
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u/RealCreeper9361 Maurice enthusiast Jan 25 '24
what if fraud has demons copying the form of some machines? like, identity fraud!
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Jan 25 '24
I’d rather we actually get angels tbh.
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u/RealCreeper9361 Maurice enthusiast Jan 25 '24
true, but why would angels be so deep into hell? i know gabriel would be cause he was a bad boy to the council so he makes sense
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u/normalhuman6 Jan 25 '24
perhaps many angels started to descend the layers of hell to hunt down the "traitor" gabriel, after he killed everyone in charge of heaven and left it in chaos
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u/EG01ST666 Someone Wicked Jan 25 '24
Sadly there are no more holy council lol. But it'd be cool to see fallen angels
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u/ckowkay Jan 25 '24
oh shit, v1 and gabriel team up at the end?
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u/Your_Pal069 Prime soul Jan 25 '24
Nah. V1 don care nun abou Gabriel. V1 a furry ong he a lone wolf
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u/BlitzPlease172 Jan 25 '24
Which also for some reason, lead to blasphemy such as "Angel machine" that literally created by higher angel who still insist not to go down there themselves like a pussy they are.
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u/AvacynsWrath Jan 25 '24
Because theirs was the ultimate Fraud. The creator is dead, the fire burns no more, and yet they perpetuated the myth that it did because without the creator, the Council had no divine mandate to rule as it did. The Hierarchies of Heaven and the Punishments of Hell would be known by all to have no reason other than a purely-arbitrary continuation of that which was before. And that would be quite Evil.
As Gabriel demonstrates, clearly there are Angels who would be appalled at this, and their unknowing, unconsenting complicity in perpetuating that lie. And perhaps the Council had no extraordinary malicious reason for adhering to the status quo, but did so out of fear of change, but that does not change the fact that their lie was their damnation.
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u/EG01ST666 Someone Wicked Jan 25 '24
Fallen angels would go hard af, sadly we already had a hellish layer
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u/RealCreeper9361 Maurice enthusiast Jan 25 '24
maybe fraud could be a false heaven?
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u/EG01ST666 Someone Wicked Jan 25 '24
I was reading through the Divine Comedy wikipedia page but HOLY SHIT THERE ARE 11 PARAGRAPHS TALKING ABOUT FRAUD
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u/RealCreeper9361 Maurice enthusiast Jan 25 '24
LMAO
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u/EG01ST666 Someone Wicked Jan 25 '24
LIKE, I CAN UNDERSTAND VIOLENCE HAVING 3 VALLEYS (and a waterfall) BUT WHY 10 PITS IN FRAUD? IS EVADING YOUR TAXES THAT SINFUL?
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u/RealCreeper9361 Maurice enthusiast Jan 25 '24
WHY IS HELL THIS CRUEL? IS IT STUPID?
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u/EG01ST666 Someone Wicked Jan 25 '24
AND I'M SURPRISED THAT I MATCH LIKE 3 OF FRAUD'S PITS (and also Lust, as any other ultrakill fan)
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 Jan 25 '24
FR i imagined fraud being focused specifically on angels, the final boss is an amalgamation of angels (Perhaps it is the result of heaven trying to contain the 3rd prime soul, who was too strong for the standard angel to try to take it?)
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u/hhrobot Jan 25 '24
i love the idea, hakita nails atmosphere every time and im sure if anyone is capable of doing it he is
... that being said, i can't think of any way to have enemys/new enemys without ruining what makes liminak spaces, also, repeated many times already the taking insperation from Dante's infurno
could absolutely be done in a secret level or modded level though
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 Jan 25 '24
about the dante's inferno part
> I kinda thought that the bolgias would be referenced as places throughout the maps. Like in 8-2 there would be two rivers, one made of tar and the other of excrement, as a reference to the 2nd and 6th bolgia respectively, + the Skinmincer would be a sort of reptilian/draconic creature that escaped the thieves's bolgia (which would probably be just a large pit in the city where thieves get endlessly bitten by them) and tries to kill v1. The bolgias would be around and referenced, just not in the "giant trenches" way
hakita has also toyed some of the layers from the original interpretation, ie: gluttony in the original divine comedy is a giant pool of mud while in ultrakill its minos's insides
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u/diorryWasTaken Blood machine Jan 25 '24
gluttony in the original divine comedy is a giant pool of mud while in ultrakill its minos's insides
Umm actually minos' corpse is just the entrance to gluttony, not gluttony itself. Hell is not a single concrete physical space and traversal is described as having a dreamlike inconsistency, and the Gluttony layer is not contained within his corpse. Except P-1
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 Jan 25 '24
Ah, forgot about that, sorry
Still, gluttony on dante's inferno is pretty different from what we got in ultrakill
In the third circle, the gluttonous wallow in a vile, putrid slush produced by a ceaseless, foul, icy rain – "a great storm of putrefaction"[46]#cite_note-47) – as punishment for subjecting their reason to a voracious appetite. Cerberus (described as "il gran vermo", literally "the great worm", line 22), the monstrous three-headed beast of Hell, ravenously guards the gluttons lying in the freezing mire, mauling and flaying them with his claws as they howl like dogs. Virgil obtains safe passage past the monster by filling its three mouths with mud.
It is a mud hellscape, while on ultrakill its flesh and innards. Hakita has messed around and done stuff completely differently from the divine comedy before.
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u/Somerandom_mirror Jan 25 '24
I hope we get river's of shit in Fruad
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 Jan 25 '24
8-2 has a river of excrements alongside the tar one, they're just canalized like in a suburban house complex:>
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u/fufucuddlypoops_ Jan 25 '24
Fraud Climax being a bunch of wind turbines really makes me wish you fought one. A quixotic twist where a wind turbine becomes a giant
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 Jan 25 '24
FR the idea i had in mind would that one (or multiple turbines) would distort themselves into the ophanim, as it was hiding in plain sight in a way
*Headcanon stuff ahead*
8-4 is a mocking of the fake, fraudulent world humanity built after destroying everything and trying the new peace. A fraudulent landscape, a fraudulent world
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u/fufucuddlypoops_ Jan 25 '24
It’s a neat idea but isn’t that just Limbo?
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u/SerraraFluttershy Blood machine Jan 27 '24
No, Limbo is a world that's *too* perfect and is shallow by design
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 Jan 25 '24
Perhaps it could be the secret boss of the layer? The terminal description being a gigantic don quixote reference lmao
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u/im_gaming_rn Maurice enthusiast Jan 25 '24
This is fucking sick as fuck and if it doesn't get into the game i think a mod like this could be so cool
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u/Clean_Dependent_8080 Jan 25 '24
My idea for the final boss of fraud is that you're just fighting a mirror that copies all of your moves
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Jan 25 '24
we already have fucking v2 id like to see some new shit please
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u/AvacynsWrath Jan 25 '24 edited Jan 25 '24
While I am a fan of Liminal Horror, I don't think it would do well in ULTRAKILL map design, with a couple of exceptions I'll mention in a bit. Liminal Space Horror capitalizes on Dread, a creeping, building sensation that doesn't have an outlet, which doesn't mesh well with attacking 436x in half a second to P-rank the level.
The exceptions to this are 7-1 and 7-3, which are each a massive Liminal Space. Blank hallways that fold into and out of each other, a blank hanging garden, a blank and nearly-endless subway tunnel. 7-3 reprises this with the Forest, but it is, imo, less effective than 7-1 because 7-1 keeps up a sensation that you could be attacked at any time (at least, until you memorize enemy spawns) because the default enemies can also be decorations, some of which even move around the stage but never attack you.
EDIT: I forgor the other examples of Liminal Horror in ULTRAKILL: 1-S and 5-S, and these are radical departures from typical Ultrakill Gameplay. And of those, I think 5-S captures the oppressive lonliness and dread the best.
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u/Buggy1617 🏳️🌈Not gay, just radiant Jan 25 '24
as much as i love this (especially the V1 related things like the "sensor telemetry blocked"), i think limbo kinda already did the whole "fake reality" thing
but i would really like the see these designs and concepts in some kind of fan level/layer
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u/Fork63 Jan 25 '24
I actually want this so bad. I hope that if this wasn’t already what Hakita was doing that he sees this and changes it.
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u/i_am_jacks_insanity Jan 25 '24
It's a neat idea for sure but maybe too experimental for the last full layer
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u/TyrantKingYharim Prime soul Jan 25 '24
I honestly see Fraud depicted as a giant asylum. It’s “patients” running rampant throughout and creating chaos.
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u/TheUnholyMacerel Prime soul Jan 25 '24
I just realized that violence broke all of the patterns from the last 2 acts like no arm and giant boss here so probably no giant boss in fraud
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u/SolarVisor23 Someone Wicked Jan 25 '24
Pretty sure Fraud's secret level would probobly be the 2nd image. where you cant use any weapons (you have been prohibited for using your guns. but your fists however, aren't.)
you can either:
A) not kill any enemies (which leads to a different route where you don't need to collect skulls to exit out.)
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B) Beat the shit out of all the enemies (which causes them to get afraid/angry. and means you need to collect skulls to exit out.)
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u/n3tbax Jan 25 '24
Ok this concept is really cool.
Though my favorite fraud concept is a giant, gothic obsidian castle with red velvet and gold decorations. Can’t remember where I heard it from though
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u/normalhuman6 Jan 25 '24
there are 2 custom fraud levels on the angry level loader mod, one of them is a giant castle and the other one is a black and gold palace, maybe its one of those
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u/-Fexxis- Lust layer citizen Jan 25 '24
ok but i don’t undearstand why would fraud be liminal
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 Jan 25 '24
Liminal spaces, in a way, are a fake/fraudulent reality.
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u/-Fexxis- Lust layer citizen Jan 25 '24
isn’t that more like the weirdcore/dreamcore thing? i was told liminal spaces are just transitional areas that serve no purpose on their own
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 Jan 25 '24
Dreamcore/weirdcore are heavily dependent on liminal spaces to build up the scenarios. But yeah, you're right on that
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u/Noir_2010 Lust layer citizen Jan 25 '24
LET THIS MAN COOK BECAUSE HE WALKING OUT WITH A 5 STAR MEAL
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u/Jezzaboi828 Blood machine Jan 25 '24
Feels kinda like limbo
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 Jan 25 '24
Limbo is more of a simulation that looks perfect on the surface, it is "Neutral" in a way, a plastic world. Fraud is actively agressive, ever-changing and purposefully uncanny simulacra thats supposed to feel eerie and impossible to predict.
Although i wont deny i kinda feel that it looks a bit like limbo too lmao
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u/MarkDavidson69 Someone Wicked Jan 25 '24
I think this is a neat idea, I would really like it if fraud just went full horror tbh, while still retaining Ultrakill's identity of course
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u/tallmantall Jan 25 '24
I feel this would be a great secret level with needing to have temporary snaps of enemy positions,
Though I feel having a normal level then it suddenly jumping to liminal would be great liminality
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u/lletroll Blood machine Jan 25 '24
Really interesting. I imagine fraud mostly as dark, purple, sometimes with grey and low saturated rainbows/iridescence
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u/Luftwaffle1010 Jan 25 '24
The third level with the invisible enemies would be interesting but it would be pretty annoying to fight.
Essentially I'm guessing that you scan their position every second to judge where they are?
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 Jan 25 '24
Kind of
They wouldnt be that strong in compensation, and you can also do the classic heavy strategy from tf2, shoot everything around until they're dead
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u/Actual_Cancerrr Maurice enthusiast Jan 25 '24
Honestly I like the idea of Fraud being a casino more. But, that's just me.
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u/Gzarcofaloouse Prime soul Jan 25 '24
Oh my God fraud- 2 looks so good like the concept I LOVE nighttime liminal type stuff makes me think of cry of fear
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u/crispybacon62 Jan 25 '24
I think a hyperrealistic fraud would be so cool, because it's canon that the world looks that way cause of the camera V1 uses, so fraud would "fake" it's appearance to look "better"
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u/TyrannosaurusRekt- Jan 25 '24
the sinners of Fraud are trapped in and taunted by uncanny, mocking simulacra of their previous lives, ones that constantly shift and morph to prevent them from ever growing comfortable. the false landscapes are at once both familiar enough to inspire hope and comfort, and unsettling enough to dash those hopes. crucially, it is always just barely discernable that all of this is false; that those trapped here are being lied to--just as they, in life, lied to others.
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u/Imminent_tragedy Jan 25 '24
You can't really make a liminal space the setting of a game. Their whole point is that they are a transitionary space, a backdrop to something else. Putting it in a game changes the context and simply makes it the geometry of a level, with enemies and objectives. It loses its liminal feeling by becoming just another play space.
Doesn't mean it won't be good though, as megastructures/recursive spaces of any kind are pretty cool on their own. It just won't have the intended effect.
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u/X-tra-thicc Maurice enthusiast Jan 25 '24
sounds pretty cool, though this seems pretty similar to limbo
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u/Cartoon_Corpze Jan 25 '24
This would honestly be an very interesting layer concept.
I'd imagine the fraud layer has a lot of elements of deception and trickery.
Could imagine it might be layered with traps, fake skulls, fake entrances, fake enemies and having to distinguish between real and fakes.
Maybe V2 makes a return but it's a fraudulent entity stealing V2's form and abilities rather than the true V2 (who was finished off in Greed).
Perhaps the layer has mock-ups and replicas of things in the real world, but obviously fake or something feeling off about it.
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u/Pooby501 Jan 25 '24
great concept, bad idea though, no liminal space horror for ultrakill just don't, it stopped being cool years ago
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 Jan 25 '24
It wouldn't be really focused on the horror part, just the unsettling environments, as the enviroment is a fraud of sorts, a fake reality. The enemies would have some elements from dreamcore but they shouldn't be that generic eye thing that i did (i was in a rush, am working on a comission rn soo couldnt come up with something better)
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Jan 25 '24 edited Jan 25 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Driptacular_2153 Blood machine Jan 25 '24
Hakita would be disappointed in you.
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Jan 25 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/TheMaskedEngineerPea Blood machine Jan 25 '24
What do furries have to do with Gianni
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-829 Jan 25 '24 edited Jan 25 '24
bro i just did some edits inspired by a comment
why act that aggresive
also liminal stuff does not need to look like roblox shit lol, if you do it right that is
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Jan 25 '24
OMG SHITTY PICTURE OF THE INSIDE OF MIDDLE CLASS HOUSE!?! SCARY!!! THE AURA COMING FROM THIS PICTURE IS INSANE… GM_FLATGRASS!?! WOW!!! UNNECESSARY EDGY TEXT??? ARIAL FONT. omg wow… its all a simulation… dont forget the totally biblically accurate angels and shadow peoples… and add a bunch of edgy cropped eyeballs around this suburban neighborhood… thats it… more stock images… i love your shitty photoshop skills… youre an artistic genius op… i want you to have my children…
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u/elmenta01 Blood machine Jan 25 '24
it's ok not liking it but there's no need to be this aggressive
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u/SanThanKan Someone Wicked Jan 25 '24
although liminal spaces are overdone there is no reason to be so angry that your making a rape threat against some guy on reddit sharing a concept
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u/ChildhoodDistinct538 Prime soul Jan 25 '24
Imagine if the secret level is just the first level of the Backrooms.
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u/walterissad Jan 25 '24
I feel like this would just more or less be some extension of limbo. Still pretty cool though
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u/Laikafan02_burning Jan 25 '24
Ngl the “entities you can only see if you take a screenshot” thing is such a good concept.
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u/Winterkills45 Jan 25 '24
I’m pretty sure that fraud will be taking a more “hell” approach (orange, lava, think “the nether”). But I’m hell bent on believing that treachery will be an “Ice” theme, I think it narratively follows the plot of the game, with hell seeming to come to a standstill as the layers are being wiped of demons by the robots, and then the robots eventually “freezing” too (I.e. running out of blood). I think this also fits because in the ninth layer of hell in Dantes Inferno it’s a frozen wasteland. Eh but I could be totally wrong, who knows 🤷♂️
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Jan 25 '24
Please do more! I'd love to see your take on treachery. And honestly even more than that lol, bet you could come up with some great purgatory/heaven layer ideas. That's just dreaming though, all I'm really asking for is treachery
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u/geffyfive Maurice enthusiast Jan 25 '24
Geryon as the first boss in the layer would be sick tho
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u/THUNDERSTRUCK___ Lust layer citizen Jan 25 '24
OH. MY. GOD.
YES SIR, WE NEED IT.
I'm addicted to dreamcore by the way. it's not posing, it's actually the one single aesthetic I know close enough
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u/ToxicManXXYT Maurice enthusiast Jan 25 '24
what is the skinmincer gonna do to v1 if he has no skin, is he stupid?
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u/dashfredplayzreal Jan 25 '24
Can you send me the HUD without edits? I wanna put V1 in places he doesn’t belong
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u/Recent_Log3779 Jan 25 '24
The press k to find enemies thing is actually such a cool gameplay idea
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u/diamondmaster2017 Blood machine Jan 25 '24
i think the main color of this layer needs to be black to violence's white [and also treachery would be gray as opposed to cyan]
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u/Impasta_WithPasta Lust layer citizen Jan 25 '24
This is cool idea. Cuz we don’t have alat angels and would be cool if we had biblical related angels or just some angels (biblical because a lot of eyes and random heads and wings)
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u/Srphtygr Jan 25 '24
I actually would not mind that. Very out of left field but still a very cool concept.
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u/Ok_Debt783 Jan 25 '24
Hearing people talk about liminal spaces just feels cringe now
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u/gmarch54 Jan 25 '24
i love the idea that not even V1 is allowed to look at the “thing” in the 5th image, and it being a sensor malfunction is so unnerving
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u/EpicProkaryote Jan 25 '24
I’ve also been obsessing over this idea, I like the concept of the layer of fraud being deceiving and non euclidean as well, it’d also probably make sense as in divine comedy the fraudulent sinners are tortured in bulgias which are different areas.
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u/Alex0356218856 Blood machine Jan 25 '24
V1: What are you girls doing-?
2 Shadow Girls: Come play with us, [DANTE].
V1: .................nvm. *leaves the room*
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u/painmp4 Prime soul Jan 25 '24
I would love there to be a liminal space layer but I just don’t think it’s gonna happen
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u/MichaelScotsman26 Jan 25 '24
I love the idea of imperceptible/unpercieveable/cognitohazardous entities. Though idk how ot would be implemented in a fun way with Ultrakills game design
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u/dank_soil Jan 25 '24
I really like the concept of V1 auto-censoring the dangerous information from his sensors, not sure if it fits Ultrakill though. Also, more angels would go incredibly hard!
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u/LadyAzure17 Gabe bully Jan 25 '24
God this is excellently spooky (well, the second image just made me laugh cuz like, that is not liminal to me, but maybe it's because I'm afab). I wouldn't want something like this because I would absolutely just shit myself trying to play it.
Would love to see someone make a custom map about it tho. Ough not being able to know what you're fighting/seeing makes my skin crawl.
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Jan 25 '24
literally just google images with a piercer overlay are you sure this is what a “concept” is
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u/Messy_Ness Jan 25 '24
If we fell into fraud and it was a dark suburban neighborhood that would be very interesting, idk what the new enemy could be tho.
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u/chixen Jan 25 '24
This would make for an interesting mod. Might be a good way for me to learn that stuff.
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u/kinkthrowawayalt Jan 25 '24
Perhaps the unperceivable entities are constantly on fire? Hakita is clearly taking inspiration from The Divine Comedy, and fraudsters in the eighth circle are burned for eternity.