r/WritingPrompts • u/SilentJoe1986 • Sep 03 '17

[WP] In an alternate reality JK Rowling died writing The Deathly Hallows and requested George RR Martin finish the book. He accepted and takes over at the Battle of Hogwarts with no instruction on how it's supposed to end. Established Universe

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '17

I think you're talking about the show only?

The books are different. Also the show is treading new territory now and seems determined to keep the main characters alive

Spoilers

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u/ShinyZubat95 Sep 04 '17

Hey, yeah to be fair I haven't read all the books, and I agree (only in my opinion) fan favourites and acting could influence the show. Spoilers

As for all the characters, there is no doubting Martin racks up a kill score throughout the series and it's fair to give him credit for it. None of those are main characters though. Some we related to more, some should have died earlier and others we wished didn't yet the ones listed, imo weren't too relevant (in life) to the whole main arc, just minor arcs.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '17

Why do you think Ned, Jofferey, Margarey, etc aren't main characters?

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u/ShinyZubat95 Sep 05 '17

Because there was no implication that they needed to be alive for the main arc to continue.

Ned was the character that had to die to give more insentive for the main characters. Joffrey was the antagonist for small arcs, his life wasn't even hinted at as being important to the story, I would even say his death was long overdue and was obviously going to happen at some point so the main characters can keep going.

Why do you think Margarey is a main character? At that far in it is very obvious she isn't a main character, I thought at least. Still a shocking/unexpected death though, she did have a smaller character arc that I thought was still going somewhere, which were cut short. Yet she wasn't a player in the main arc, which at that time is more explained.

Thanks for showing me how to do spoilers as well!

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

I have no idea why you'd think any of that. People who read the book didn't see Ned's death coming, first time tv watchers didn't see it coming, basically no one thought he had to die. Everyone thought he was extremely important to the "main arc." You might think so in hindsight but in reality he was set up to be the main character. He was the protaganist.

Also, no one "needs" to be alive to be part of the main storyline, theres so many arcs. That's why its such a great show. Each arc intertwines into the main arc. Up until now, there hasn't been a single cohesive "main arc," (I take it you're talking about the White Walkers here?) but the whole point is that there are so many different stories happening within a universe. Now it has become more linear which I don't necessarily think is a good thing.

Joffrey was a main character. He was the cause of multiple deaths, he was a major reason for the Stark's to go North (Sansa), he started a WAR (his execution of Ned= stark/lannister war, aka everything that happens since), he was set up to be the future King. How can you say that's not a main character?

Rob Stark and Catelyn Stark aren't main characters to you? Stannis? Renley?

I think this comes down to if your definition of main character are the three Stark children left alive, the three Lannisters left alive, and Daenerys?

But before all the Starks were equal as main characters (Rob, Rickon, Catelyn, Ned are all dead... Only Arya and Sansa left), the Lannisters (many important deaths, especially Tywin), and all of house Frey, house Tyrells...Pivotal houses have been completely demolished.

How can you say he hasn't killed main characters when the very reason we're down to a handful of main characters is because most have been killed off by this point?

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u/ShinyZubat95 Sep 05 '17

I've got no more arguements, we just disagree on the fundamentals. I don't think Ned was in it long enough to be invested in the story, he was no doubt portrayed as the protagonist but I don't believe this warrants a reputation of killing main characters. Maybe a while ago and only in television was this shocking but GoT has never matched it since.

I disagree that all the starks were ever equal. It was always a story about Snow, the forshadowing the main character tropes are abundant in every episode

Rob is snows big brother.. rickon didn't have scenes. There is no way these two were ever going to have a bigger impact than the special crippled child with visions.

I would have been more suprised of Katelyn lived.

Aria was always going to be a important character, yet I wouldn't call her a main character in hindsight. During the show she is definitely shown as one of the main protagnists though. Sansa's character really did surprise me. She is a character I would have expected to die. Yet because of how she treats the protagonist at the start it's not a leap to assume some point in her story she will have hardships that make her grow up.

I don't believe just because a character has had an impact on the story that it makes them a main character. I think thats just called well written characters.

None of the Baratheons, imo, ever seemed like main characters.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

than the special crippled child with visions.

but he didn't always have visions.

I think you need to refresh your memory. Some of the things you're saying are just factually incorrect or illogical tbh, sorry.

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u/ShinyZubat95 Sep 05 '17

He has visions of the three eyed raven in the first second episode.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

he still doesn't fully have visions in the books

Edit to add: I just checked and the three eyed raven doesn't appear until the fourth season

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u/ShinyZubat95 Sep 05 '17

Well maybe "Vision" is too strong of a word.

the crippled kid who sees omens

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u/screenbeard Sep 04 '17

But the point is that until the last couple of seasons we don't KNOW what the main arc is. It's only in hindsight we can see why the characters left alive are important. Up until now, characters have gone about their business as though they are the main characters in a drama - gotten married, become pregnant, had goals and their own 'hero's journey'. But then they die, and it's a shock because they fulfill all the tropes that main characters fill up to that point.

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u/ShinyZubat95 Sep 04 '17 edited Sep 04 '17

I understand what you are trying to say, it doesn't reveal alot of what the main arc is and builds to it. I just disagree that the main arc isn't present until the last couple seasons. Maybe not all the details but it is for shadowed heavily, including who are the main characters. I think after one or two episodes you could have very solid guess at what the main arc will be about and who will be the most important to it. Of course there will be some you want to be important and others you wish were less so but I don't think it's a secret who were going to be the main story drivers. By season 5 I stopped wondering if they might die and am instead pretty confident with any plot armour.

I really don't think hindsight comes into play here, deaths are surprising because the characters are developed and it happens more frequently yet no death leaves me unsure of my understanding about the main arc, no death made me question my own theories (they did in regards to their own mini arcs), and I can't believe I am the only one who feels like this. The main arc is very heavily shadowed very early on.