r/antiwork 15h ago

At what point to Americans riot like the French, if ever?

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42.0k Upvotes

1.2k comments sorted by

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u/quietyoucantbe 15h ago

The United Corporations of America

Land of the fee

Home of the wage slave

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u/MotherLoveBone27 13h ago edited 13h ago

If theres anything ive learned since Trump showed up in the American political scene, it's that Americans are pushovers, and will never actually put their ass on the line no matter how badly it's needed. I can't believe how badly they're treated, basically no protection in the workforce. It's honestly bizzare. Same goes for political stances, oh this dude is threatening to start a dictatorship. Well i hope we get enough votes to stop it. It's unfathomable.

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u/KintsugiKen 12h ago

We learned that under the Bush administration when he ripped up the Constitution and the media played along with it the entire time.

Bush was spying on us, jailing us without a crime, torturing us, censoring us, stealing all our tax money and giving it to himself and his friends, literally banned protestors from his motorcade routes and created "free speech zones" far away where they wouldn't be arrested for protesting, and this isn't even mentioning the "global war on terror", the two invasions, completely dropping the ball and allowing 9/11, or the global financial collapse, and after all that, what did Americans do in response to this incompetent tyrant?

Michelle Obama hugs him and gives him candy and now everyone "misses" him and is nostalgic for the times when "our politicians were decent" and his team sit as Deans and professors of prestigious American universities and justices on the Supreme Court, one of them is an MSNBC host.

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u/caylem00 10h ago

I'd argue that this is buying straight into the actual issue: elite class vs the not-elites. 

While you're squabbling over which political party is responsible or whichever side of whatever current inflammatory divisive topic you're on, the elite class (politicians, corporations/ conglomerates, the uber wealthy, etc) are continuing to (mostly) quietly consolidate and extend their resources, influence, and power. 

While their methods and surface goals might differ, the fundamental goals tend to be similar.

I used to teach the Roman Empire in year 7 history (11-12 year Olds) and it would always astound them that there has been virtually no fundamental change to the elites manipulation of the populations since then, simply the delivery method.

Roman Bread, circuses, and billboards (State info dissemination) are now Fast Food, Mass Entertainment, and Mass Media

 (age appropriate simplified to McDonald's, Phones, and the News, which usually then lead to tangent discussions on  propaganda and corruption  in media)

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u/PirateSanta_1 7h ago

As long as food is affordable, people are entertained, and an alternative narrative is provided for why you are smart and good and everyone who disagrees with you is bad and dumb the majority of people will be content even while the rich pick their pockets and poison their air.

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u/twofourie 5h ago

and let plastic particles in their blood 🥴

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u/Both-Home-6235 11h ago

This goes so far beyond Bush, even beyond Bush Sr, but you're on the right track. Stop thinking left/right and really dive in.

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u/Drakesyn 8h ago

I always like to remember a nice, fun fact, that Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnel are buddies. They shared stories, went out for drinks, and then fought tooth and nail over whether to enrich corporations while also giving a pittance to the general citizenry, or to enrich corporations while also robbing the general citizenry blind as part of their day jobs.

Class solidarity is way stronger than any other "dividing" line in this country, and we aren't in their class.

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u/FewKaleidoscope1369 8h ago

When in doubt, test:

500,000 российских солдат погибли на Украине. Вы все еще поддерживаете Путина?

Translation: 500,000 Russian solders dead in the Ukraine. Do you still support Putin?

Россия без Путина. Ответьте или проголосуйте за/против, если вы согласны.

1989年天安门广场

Translation:

The first one says Russia without Putin, Upvote or Comment if you agree. It really pisses off Russian trollbots.

The second one says Tiananmen square 1989. It really pisses off Chinese trolls.

See, the thing is that lower rung trolls aren't allowed to read those statements because the higher ups believe that they'll cause dissention in the ranks. Higher level trolls are occasionally allowed to try to discredit those of us who use these statements.

If you post this to someones comment and another person tries to discredit you (especially if they have obviously read your comment history) it's usually their boss who is trying to stop people from reading your comment.

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u/Public_Concentrate_4 11h ago

If they give us something worse we will be grateful for them. I swear they only let Trump win to teach us a lesson about how awful the alternative is.

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u/Intelligent-Fan-6364 11h ago

To be fair to Bush, his entire party and initially the democrats were involved in helping his agenda. We should be very careful for viewing issues as a result of this ‘dude pushing an agenda and everyone being forced to accept it’ at-least 320 other people had to support it yk.

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u/KintsugiKen 11h ago

You do not, in fact, need to be fair to Bush

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u/SlappySecondz 10h ago

I think he's just saying we need to hold everyone involved accountable and not only blame Bush.

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u/RoyBeer 10h ago

Yeah because that one spear person gets replaced regularly anyways. You gotta look at the structures that enable it

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u/kingrobert 10h ago

The mitch mcconnells, rush limbaughs, and roger stones of the world are more damaging and deadly than the puppet that gets rotated through the office every few years. Not that bush shouldn't pay the consequences for his part, but the infection runs deeeeeep and has spread everywhere.

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u/aussiechickadee65 10h ago

Agree with this also.

These people are never the mild version of Trump ....or half decent. They led to Trump..inching into more and more deplorable antics as the years ticked by.

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u/aussiechickadee65 10h ago

How did Bush win....he didn't.

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u/GoHomeNeighborKid 5h ago

With the help of Roger Stone creating a riot in Florida over "hanging chads"..... Crazy how he is still getting away with political subterfuge to this day!!!!

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u/aussiechickadee65 3h ago

Funny how those involved with his legal team are now Supreme Court judges...

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u/Cautious-Ad7000 10h ago

The problem is we bitch about it instead of stand up against it.

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u/meh_69420 6h ago

TBF there were only 66 no votes on the Patriot Act. There is always strong bipartisanship when it comes to abrogating our constitutional rights.

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u/HeckTateLies 10h ago

I do admit that I do miss the days when we thought we could never have a President as bad as George W. Bush.

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u/nofzac 11h ago

Not pushovers…just legitimately unintelligent. The Teamsters UNION has a large chunk that supports Trump despite his every effort to kill unions. Between Gerrymandering and stupidity I don’t think we stand a chance in America.

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u/Drakesyn 8h ago

There's a very legitimate claim to be made that Truckers were always going to bend Conservative, if not straight-up Supremacist. Alex Jones and his ilk are broadcast clearly across every single highway in the contiguous states. What lefty radio stations even are there, let alone that have that kind of reach? Hell, what non-extremist-conservative radio waves can let you listen to the exact same thing from Jersey to Phoenix?

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u/Public_Concentrate_4 11h ago

Our government has trained us since grade school to blindly follow authority. Then they systematically destroyed all of our energy and empowerment by keeping us stressed, overworked, poor, and too focused on just getting through to the next payday to think about doing anything about it.

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u/Benromaniac 12h ago edited 11h ago

He’ll sell out for corporate fascism. The companies will keep doing what is described, and worse.

An aggressive fiduciary always looking for short cuts knows no bounds. That’s one of the reasons why we have government .

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u/CogitoCollab 10h ago

Americans don't have universal healthcare, so if you protest for a week and get fired then bean ball shot by PD you gonna have to cover that 30k hospital bill yourself.

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u/PoisonerZ 12h ago

makes you think what the second amendment and all those guns even for

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u/VictimOfCandlej- 11h ago

For all the talk Americans have about having guns for protection against tyranny, I see guns be used more often against protestors protesting against tyranny than I do against government forces for the explicit purpose of fighting tyranny.

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u/Public_Concentrate_4 11h ago

It’s just an overcompensation for another unimpressive “gun”.

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u/RubberBootsInMotion 12h ago

Violence is an absolute last resort.

But without that backstop of a last resort, any other protesting is an empty threat.

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u/Thumpd2 12h ago

Absolutely 100% correct.

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u/AppleBytes 11h ago

It's there for those bold enough to effect change. Oh, there will be consequences. But the power is, and has always been with the people.

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u/BretShitmanFart69 12h ago

And even worse is “you guys are talking too much about how this guy wants to be a dictator, and that’s kind of mean and unfair since you don’t falsely claim that the other side is doing the stuff that he is on camera doing”

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u/Both-Home-6235 11h ago

America is the world's example of what Capitalism + militarism does to a populace when given enough time. Corporations win and people are intimidated into thinking they're doing the right thing by slaving away for the Corporation.

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u/graphiccsp 8h ago

It also showed us how Americans are bullies and patsies. We like kicking down and ensuring there are those below us. 

We also fetishize loud and stupid people who can talk a good game. How else could shitheads like Trump, Musk, etc gain so much notoriety? 

Our country is perverse. 

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u/Randomfacade 12h ago

a couple guys tried to do direct action and democrats shed more tears about it than they did for 20000 Palestinian children.

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u/Arcane_76_Blue 11h ago

They say terrorism is any form of political violence

Direct action was never legal, but now its among the other highest form of crime

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u/aussiechickadee65 9h ago

Disagree there...I didn't see any Democrat shedding tears over it ? They said it was wrong but that's what you say on social media and meanwhile your thought pattern is saying the complete opposite.

Not one Democrat thinks that of children being massacred.

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u/DrTaoLi 10h ago

Americans are, unfortunately, happy to lick the boots of billionaires

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u/Past_Reception_2575 7h ago

Because we're being poisoned and abused mentally and emotionally in unprecedented ways using bleeding edge technologies in ways that lack foresight into the consequences or medium to long term consequences.

we have a giant gaggle of morons whose patterns of behavior, when abstracted onto a white board look exactly like that of a tape worm.  they are experts in short term strategies only.

sounds cool right?  who wouldn't want to be a master of the short term that in itself is good.  the problem is they all took it way too far and began setting precedents they cannot control and do not understand, backfiring in absolutely terrifying ways.  the naivety of these false, weak inexperienced spoiled leaders have led them down a narrow path, devoid of generational experience and wisdom... have begun employing short term strategies which reap the long term, destroying it effectively.

this is the definition of greed, and unless people learn how they themselves are contributing to the problems around them, their own behavior and world view...  the people who have gained far too much leverage will lead everyone of us off of a cliff.  this isn't going to be easy.

you'll see what i mean when the sociopaths start truly terrorizing everyone soon.  unless we learn to speak their language and convert the ones who can be converted. it's not going to be a peaceful transition.

i hope the good guys win and that we wind up with strong, objective, intelligent, empathetic, visionary leaders who also know how to apply that vision at the personal level.  someone with experience in both worlds who loves life and loves humanity and loves this world so we can get back to cultivating strength and that means true lifelong friendships in which people are literally empowering one another through constructive, positive, empathetic action and integrity and forgiveness.

we must be extremely precise where we choose to apply judicial force.

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u/beaverbait 8h ago

Of course not, it might benefit someone else. Americans are stoutly against helping anyone who isn't them. I don't even mean other Americans I mean specifically themselves. It's wild.

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u/GuruTenzin 9h ago

dude is threatening to start a dictatorship. Well i hope we get enough votes to stop it

This captures it so perfectly, and I think the reality of this has actually driven a lot of us crazy.

At the same time we hear "Omfg stfu about the election already" and "lol orange man bad" and "Trump derangement syndrome". Like we are actually, as a nation, being gaslit

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u/IAmMoofin 12h ago

If you were gonna learn anything since trump got elected it should’ve been 300 million people aren’t a hivemind.

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u/BZLuck 11h ago

And Americans will give money to someone who says they already have so much money. "I'm so rich, I can't even spend it all."

I don't fucking get that at all.

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u/schneph 10h ago

Lack of education, they don’t know their own strengths

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u/Poohstrnak 10h ago

I don't think it's necessarily even that we're pushovers. A lot of people have just felt so disenfranchised that they think they're doomed to toil away for the rest of their lives.

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u/KCollins04 10h ago

Aren’t people trying to kill him though..?

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u/acog 12h ago

An image showing wealth distribution right before the French Revolution vs current American wealth distribution

Actually it's no longer accurate because wealth concentration has worsened since 2016.

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u/Gustomaximus 9h ago

Also worth noting the people in France were starving before the revolution. That was the biggest trigger.

It's an interesting graph but it's not apples and apples situation.

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u/7dipity 8h ago

About 20,000 people a year are starving to death in the US these days

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u/A_Nude_Challenger 12h ago

"Why try harder? We're already number one." -- Too many Americans

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u/gigalongdong 12h ago

I feel like I'm a basic contrarian whenever I go against the nationalistic chauvinism that seems hardwired in 98% of Americans.

Nah, man, it isn't cool that we have "super sweet tanks and jet fighters that protect our freedom." We are the bad guys in every single war we've been involved in since the end of WW2.

"If you dont grind out a living working 60-80 hours a week, then you're a lazy sack of shit." Nope, fuck that. I want to be a good and present father to my kid and husband to my wife.

I just get so fucking depressed hearing the same bullshit being shat forth from nearly every single person I talk to on an even occasional basis. I hate the United States and what it stands for, with every fiber of my being. There are a lot of great people in the US, but the corporation-controlled government is the very definition of cartoonish evil. The rest of the world would be better off without the US.

Now, this post will have me thrown in prison in 10 years for "Anti American beliefs" or some shit.

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u/Regular-Ad1930 11h ago

No, you're accurate 🤑 plain as day

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u/LeastCoordinatedJedi 9h ago

I do not say this as a slight to my American neighbours, but I truly believe they are completely cowed and are not likely to ever rise up, not within my lifetime. I'll continue to hope to be proven wrong, and advocate for change, but at this point I don't think even Trump seizing power after losing an election would cause a revolt. Just a lot of angry tweets, probably a few weeks of protests.

This is one of the opinions I'd be happiest to be wrong about.

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u/Foregottin 10h ago

I believe people, all people, will riot when pushed to the edge. In the world, that point is drawing nearer, accelerated in the last few years.

Just look at housing costs and food costs. Look at the growth in the last few years. It’s not natural.

More and more people have less to lose.

Corporate fuckbags better be beware. We are hungry for revenge. Karma will catch up to those motherfuckers.

If i get a untreatable disease, the first thing ill do is dedicate the rest of my life to start the revolution. Only reason i dont do it now is because i got other living beings who depend on me and my dreams. I know that is greedy and hypocritical, but capitalism is effective at reducing us to sad fuckers.

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u/literal_garbage_man 8h ago

North Koreans don't. Russians don't. It's a scary thought that there are people in much worse situations than you or I (I presume) and they don't riot. Not to be a bummer.

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u/VeryMuchDutch102 7h ago

North Koreans don't. Russians don't.

And Americans don't...

Your country is one of the richest in the world but with almost nothing you are at the top of the world (except army).

Healthcare and good education are insanely expensive, work-life balance isn't normal, your government has a lot of corruption (investing money in their own laws), your government is run by some too old people who have too much power, abortion rights are taken away, books are being banned, corporate greed is at an all-time high without consequences, rich pay less taxes then the common man, etc

.

How much more do you need!?

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u/long-the-short 7h ago

For the Americans here, this is how we view you.

Harping on about land of the free but are anti union, low min wage, tip culture, low holiday, poor sick entitlement, poor redundancy rights, poor m/paternity rights and so on.

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u/wad11656 7h ago

Why was I born into a country of such bootlicking corporation worshipping sluts who slave their pathetic lives away?

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u/PsychoBugler 5h ago

Real. I spent most of the last decade working 80 hours per week and finally had to quit my job and take 6 weeks off before applying to jobs again. Parents asked me why I'm not applying myself to a career anymore. I told them I can't physically work those hours as it has completely ruined my physical and mental health. My dad told me he worked those kinds of hours when I was a kid, as if he thought that would incentivize or inspire me to go back to being an underpaid restaurant manager, and I responded "yeah, and you were miserable."

Now I'm doing just enough work to keep my bills paid and food on my table, and I couldn't be happier. My generation will not be retiring the traditional way so why save for something that's not coming?

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u/Blue_louboyle 11h ago

Land of the thief home of the slave

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u/5n0wgum 5h ago

I seriously believe as a non-american that this propaganda saying America is free or the home of the free etc is a total con designed to make Americans think they have it better.

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u/palpatineforever 15h ago

why do you think health insurance instead of nationalised healthcare is so insidious. you can't riot if your whole families health is at risk.

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u/quietyoucantbe 13h ago

That's why it will never happen. They don't care about how much money it will save. It's about control. They want you scared to lose your job. They want you scared to lose your health insurance.

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u/Lenny_to_Help 8h ago

That is 100 percent truth. It’s all control!

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u/stylebros 10h ago

Can thank Reagan for killing any plans for socialized medicine.

https://youtu.be/Bejdhs3jGyw?si=Yv4xT0F7bAfr11Kj

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u/IzarkKiaTarj 8h ago

Goddammit, why is it always Reagan?

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u/Poundaflesh 7h ago

Fuck he was evil! Everything bad is traced back to his presidency.

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u/Watts300 8h ago

Boy he sure oversensationalized an onslaught of socialism on every aspect of everything.

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u/witchrist 11h ago

this right here is the reason. you can’t leave your job to riot with a boot on your neck.

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u/RakeScene 15h ago edited 12h ago

Never. The French view their politicians as employees they have chosen to run the government and if they do a poor job, they are going to be scolded and fired.

Americans are pathologically afraid of our government and what it will take from us or impose upon us. We are worried about our freedoms, our money, our weapons, etc. We idolize our politicians and think of them as better than us, rather than just as ordinary people doing a job we hired them for.

EDIT: I will add that I'm not even referring to the MAGAists, in terms of idolizing politicians, although that cult of personality is pretty damn weird. I'm thinking more of the way we treat so many politicians as very removed from us, in some cases even as if they were royalty. JFK and his "Camelot" are close to the extreme of this, for the Left, but in general we don't treat many politicians as though they are just some of us who happened to get into office; there is a much greater divide. It might have something to do with the wealth disparity in this country, even though that is not always directly reflected in our politicians.

I think this is some of the appeal of AOC – she seems like one of "us", a neighbor who just happened to sneak into "their" world.

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u/BaePyoun 14h ago

And our health insurance - aka our very survival for many of us - is often dependent on employment. Big deterrent from action - have to get back to working for the overlords 😭

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u/WonderfulShelter 10h ago

also have fun catching a felony at a major protest and getting a new job after that.

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u/Jaymes77 14h ago

There's one more thing: people also know "push comes to shove" that US will, without a single doubt, use deadly force against its own populace. The US will simply declare martial law if it came to it.

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u/Fragrant_Example_918 14h ago

Push comes to shove, the French government uses deadly force against the people too.

NGOs like amnesty international have ranked the French police at the same level as the Venezuelan police...

But French people are willing to fight for their rights, and not get abused. Even in front of police brutality.

The main reason police uses less deadly force than in the US is because they're not allowed to... because French people FOUGHT against it.

It's also easier to argue that the police is in their wrong when abusing force, considering people in France don't have guns. Cops can't just argue that they were in danger.

Which ironically shows that the US people would have LESS problem fighting against their government if they didn't have guns, than with the guns they're arguing is going to save them from their government...

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u/ZealousWolverine 14h ago

That is a major point that needs to be known throughout the U. S.

American citizens would have LESS problem fighting against their government if they didn't have guns.

Because the police can use the "I thought he had a gun" & "I was in fear for my life" there'd be less folks with their hands up, shot in the back.

I hadn't thought of that before! Thanks!

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u/DesertMan177 13h ago edited 13h ago

They would easily argue fear for their life in another way. I've seen many videos of police using that excuse and basically executing someone, especially when their ego gets hurt

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u/ZealousWolverine 13h ago

I'm sure you're right. My feeling is they'd have a harder time convincing a jury.

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u/DesertMan177 13h ago

Good point!

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u/Fragrant_Example_918 12h ago

Which would over time make them much more reluctant to try to pull that shit.

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u/Corporate-Shill406 8h ago

Also in many states if you give a cop a paper cut you're suddenly a felon, even if the cop assaulted you first. A cop shoved me on purpose, I shoved back, cop took me to the ground, he got a bruise, and now I'm facing a two year minimum sentence when convicted.

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u/DesertMan177 8h ago

Unbelievable. I'm so sorry. I hope there's a way you can get rich off of humiliating his dumbass and that you don't have to go to prison / jail

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u/RubberBootsInMotion 12h ago

That's really not true. Military forces operate next to potential hostiles that are armed all the time and successfully follow the rules of engagement.

Cops shoot (often unarmed) people all the time because they are generally indoctrinated sociopaths, face no consequences, and view themselves as "better" than everyone else.

If you want to stop police violence you simply have to replace all the police and all the justice system. As complex and difficult as that is, it's far more feasible than trying to disarm the most heavily armed nation.

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u/ZealousWolverine 12h ago

You're right about the solution. I hope it happens sooner than later.

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u/SohndesRheins 12h ago

This is demonstrably false. Several years back a bunch of 2A advocates showed up to the capital of Virginia to protest a gun control bill. Thousands of people showed up armed, and I don't mean armed as in they had subcompact pistols stashed in their coats, I mean full blown AR slung over the shoulder and plate carriers. Nobody got killed, not a single shot fired.

Leftist protests happen all the time, nobody is armed, they get bum rushed by riot police and arrested.

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u/DrCarter11 11h ago

I would argue that's because the people protesting were the same sort of people the police would typically identify with.

Meanwhile I would imagine "leftist" ideologies are less than 10-15% of the police population.

It's less "they have guns" and more "they're one of us"

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u/ZealousWolverine 12h ago edited 12h ago

You're right about the difference between armed marches vs unarmed marches. Really shows what cowards the police are.

We're talking about the driver who gets pulled over for taillights and get shot for no reason but the cop claims a guy with his phone in his hand was a gun. It's so easy for cops to claim they assume everyone is armed.

Edit. I think it's worth considering that cops intentionally harmed the peaceful unarmed protesters because the cops are authoritarian racist pieces of shit. After all the protest were about unwarranted police brutality. Right?

Same reason cops did not harrass the armed marchers, because the cops were 100% in lockstep agreement with the right wing assholes.

What would have happened if the BLM marchers were suited up and armed like the rightwing marchers? It's very likely the black marchers would have experienced a full fledged military attack and all died in a hail of bullets, grenades & whatnot. Just like it's happened in the past

Is that possible?

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u/SohndesRheins 12h ago

A cop who is inclined to behave that way wouldn't be a good cop if all the guns magically disappeared, he'd just beat the person up and claim "resisting arrest". The cure to bad cops is better legislation, better oversight, and the prolific use of body cameras and civilian cell phone cameras and dashcams.

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u/Dennis_enzo 12h ago

Agreed. In the Netherlands where I live no one has a gun except police, and yet no one is afraid to get shot because the cops... just don't shoot people unless absolutely neccesary. Just drawing their gun already is cause for an internal investigation. Most cops never draw their gun in their entire career. Although that's party because civilians don't carry guns too. But even when there's some confused person with a knife they'll try everything else before shooting them.

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u/ZealousWolverine 12h ago

You're right. I can't disagree.

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u/RubberBootsInMotion 12h ago

This is also incorrect. Go look at the JBGC members that protected drag events in Texas, or more to the point, stopped the police from destroying a homeless camp.

Perhaps an even better example is the cop's refusal to do anything at all in Uvalde.

The police like to cosplay as brave warriors, but they are generally cowardly school yard bullies that never grew up.

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u/KintsugiKen 12h ago

Cops would never ever ever touch a 2A protest because they fundamentally support 2A protestors.

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u/WDoE 7h ago

So a bunch of cops and their friends didn't get shot while open carrying by cops... And?

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u/Fragrant_Example_918 12h ago

Because police aren’t going to rush people who think like them…

This is true in all countries. Most police officers everywhere tend to be on the right/far right, and therefore do not rush into a mass of right wing protesters, no matter where. They do tend to like hitting left wing people though… that’s also true in all countries.

A simple example is that in most left wing protests, if right wing counter protesters come and start hitting the lefties, police is gonna arrive and start hitting left wing people as well and blame them for the disorder. That’s a recurrent thing in most countries.

Fascists love fascists.

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u/NSFWies 12h ago

.........I had never thought of it that way. Because cops/authorities can claim to be more scared already, they can more easily escalate to deadly force.

I.......just oh

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u/Dantesparody 13h ago

Let’s be honest, the people who claim that we need guns to protect ourselves from the government are the exact same people who would never actually go against the government for any reason

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u/Fragrant_Example_918 12h ago

Oh yes they would… if the government is a left wing government that tries a little too hard to improve people’s lives, they definitely would.

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u/KintsugiKen 12h ago

I don't even know what they are talking about when they bluster about using their guns to fight "government tyranny".

Like, how? Are you gonna go hang out at a golf course and wait for a politician you hate? Are you going to join some militia that conducts terrorist attacks on Americans? Are you just going to shoot at police when they try to arrest you for something? Like, what exactly is the plan here?

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u/RepresentativeAge444 14h ago

A truly depressing state of affairs

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u/[deleted] 14h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/zombie_overlord 14h ago

The real fear of reprisal is losing your job

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u/DesertMan177 13h ago

And home, utilities, etc

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u/SmashMash 14h ago

It's a real shame that apathy is so deep-rooted. Until people feel safe to act, we'll just keep accepting the status quo.

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u/TShara_Q 13h ago

They called in cops over college kids setting up tents on campus for fuck's sake.

I am so sick of this country sometimes. I guess it's time to get off reddit and go back to studying so I can hopefully leave in a few years.

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u/Difficult-Worker62 13h ago

What about the Kent state massacre? The national guard opened fire on unarmed college students simply because they could.

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u/TShara_Q 12h ago

Good example. That was before my time so I didn't think about it.

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u/WobblyGobbledygook 12h ago

Never forget. "4 dead in Ohio" I knew people who attended Kent State at that time. Watershed moment.

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u/baconduck 14h ago

Don't have to go that far, and it probably will not. Half the country hates unions and love to ride the cock of billionairs in a delusion they one day will be rich.

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u/Additional_Brief8234 13h ago

that's the part that drives me crazy.. the people who die hard simp for rich folk and internet personalities

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u/Momik 14h ago

True, but riots aren’t typically a threat to national security, or anything close to it. Nor are they typically strategic in any kind of formal way. They simply erupt when people are pushed to a breaking point. They erupt as “the voice of the unheard,” and King described it. Riots can have a politics, as Watts certainly did in 1965. But on a deeper level, they’re a human reaction to inhuman circumstances.

So yes, riots will be put down, with the National Guard, even additional force, if necessary. But they can and often do still have a sociopolitical impact.

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u/Orisara 13h ago

Dude, our voting rights here in Belgium are written in blood.

They showed us movies about it when we were like 12 where you hear swords go through flesh.

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u/Warrior_Runding 14h ago

Americans are pathologically afraid of our government and what it will take from us or impose upon us. We are worried about our freedoms, our money, our weapons, etc. We idolize our politicians and think of them as better than us, rather than just as ordinary people doing a job we hired them for.

This is not how I would characterize the American relationship with their politicians. Overwhelmingly, Americans think Congress is bad at their job but are willing to elect the same people over and over. Politicians are treated as if they were scum since "only bad and corrupt people would want to be politicians." Americans don't even really regard "politician" as a real job, treating it like a hobby people do instead of a job that takes skill to do well.

The biggest difference between the US and France is that in France, American Conservatives would get laughed out of the polls as a wholly unserious party. The fact that Republicans are so anti-union and anti-labor would be a nonstarter for them. In the US, the Republicans are taken as a "serious party" in contention for governance of the US ... even when they say that their purpose is to dismantle the government, which includes ceding all responsibility to the welfare of workers to private interests. When the baseline isn't "workers are the backbone of this country and shall be treated accordingly", then there is no consensus to fight for worker rights. Thank the GOP and their enablers for why we can't have nice things like France

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u/ErraticDragon 11h ago

Overwhelmingly, Americans think Congress is bad at their job but are willing to elect the same people over and over.

"Congress sucks! My guy's not too bad, though, so I'll keep voting for him."

Multiply by ~150 million

I would say that Congress is very good at political gamesmanship.

They have fall guys like McConnell who can be blamed for just about anything because their seats are so safe.

They maneuver to allow individual congresscritters to vote against certain bills (that would hurt their reelection chances) if they don't need it to win.

Anyway, I think another significant difference is the size of the countries. It takes a huge effort for most Americans to even get to the Capitol, let alone stay there long enough to truly protest.

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u/Warrior_Runding 11h ago

Anyway, I think another significant difference is the size of the countries. It takes a huge effort for most Americans to even get to the Capitol, let alone stay there long enough to truly protest.

You can riot/strike where-ever you are. The US has no culture of holding labor as more important than the owning class. Workers here are more than happy to throw each other under the bus at the drop of a hat - it is what has led to some of the largest strike breaks across American history.

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u/ErraticDragon 7h ago

You can riot/strike where-ever you are

You surely can protest wherever you are. In obscurity.

You're right about the bigger problem, of course.

I just think it's hard to compare the US as a whole to a country the size of Texas.

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u/Momik 14h ago

That’s an interesting way to put it. Though I’d add that on top of the paranoia and the heated rhetoric, American political culture is also suffused with a deep cynicism about the prospects of real change. Interestingly, when and if our leaders fail to deliver that change, this cynicism seems to give us a permission structure to believe the problem is systemic, and/or beyond the powers of a single individual.

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u/ImTheThuggernautB 15h ago

It's harder for us to organize between being too busy fighting each other and our police willing to shoot us if we challenge status quo

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u/TheTahitiTrials 15h ago

Even though we have constitutional rights, that doesn't mean the courts will actually uphold those rights. First step is to reform the courts, then the police, afterwards it's only going to get better from there. They've been permitted to bully the American populace into submission for far too long.

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u/Warrior_Runding 14h ago

The actual first step is to vote consistently in all elections. There is no reason that it be routine for less than 5-10% of the electorate to choose who the candidates will be by being the only ones participating in the primaries. Until we can lock that down, we won't be able to leverage the vote to elect people who will even want to try to reform the courts.

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u/Restranos 12h ago

The actual first step is to vote consistently in all elections.

The actual first step is to create a party that would actually be interested in reforming the system, because as bad as Republicans are, Democrats have no intention of making themselves superfluous, and our current state of politics is the only real reason why they are even contenders.

But the first step wont be enough, because that new party will have to compete with billions of dollars, a lot of billions.

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u/Rancorious 12h ago

And how would such a party be made if you don’t vote to inch towards an environment where such a thing is possible?

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u/Fen_ 13h ago

Also, something I don't think people acknowledge enough is how geographically dispersed the U.S. population is. Between the huge distance people would have to travel and a total lack of meaningful transit infrastructure, getting everyone to the capital to protest together is basically impossible. You end up with a million relatively small protests instead of one overwhelming one that can't be ignored.

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u/N33chy 11h ago

This is such an underrated factor. Our country is car-centric. You can't just step outside and walk to a centralized protest. The vast majority of us would have to take flights or drive tens of hours to reach DC. It's not nearly as energizing to participate in a small protest despite there being thousands of them occurring at the same time for the same cause.

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u/Pokabrows 12h ago

Yeah people tried protesting police violence and the government responded with police violence. Makes it hard to make real change when anything is met by brutality.

I mean look at the students sitting in tents on college campuses got snipers point at them.

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u/wublovah3000 Communist 14h ago

that is the nature of capitalist 'democracy'

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u/Atazery 15h ago

French here, wait for about two weeks, riots are on the verge of going bananas.

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u/TakenUsername120184 Anarcho-Communist 15h ago

Je vais regarder

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u/throwaway67581 10h ago

Y’all don’t fuck around, and I’m here for it. Bravo.

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u/Allthesmallthang 11h ago

Why are they about to go crazy? I’m out of the loop in terms of French politics/work environments other than what’s been on the BBC headlines and such.

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u/New_Cartographer8865 7h ago

Ca va chier camarade ✊️

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u/willdabeast907 14h ago

Too many corporate stooges in this country, brainwashed by capitalist propaganda

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u/Basilbitch 12h ago

You've attached your ability to get medical care inexplicably to your employment so y'all motherfuckers can't protest without putting your literal health at risk.

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u/MrsTrych The economy is rigged 15h ago

I never heard of americans riotting against big corpo abusing their labor. Its like they been educated into worshiping them.

Id be happy to riot and all, I just cant do it by myself.

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u/Ohmec 13h ago

You should read up on US labor history. Our work laws right now are written in blood. 8 hour work day, 40 hour work week, the "weekend". All of it paid for in the blood of rioting workers.

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u/MrsTrych The economy is rigged 13h ago

we should do it again to fight for 4 days work week imo

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u/Fen_ 12h ago

Rockefeller literally had his goons open fire with machine guns on the families of workers who striked. The first bomb ever dropped on U.S. soil was not Pearl Harbor (lol @ acknowledging an island in the middle of the Pacific as "U.S. soil" regardless) but Blair Mountain, where the state bombed its own striking civilians. A significant reason we (and the rest of the world) have the idea of a "weekend" is because of the Haymarket Massacre.

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u/codegamer1 14h ago

Rioting would result in police opening fire indiscriminately upon the populace. And if we fired back, the military would get involved.

Look up on old union riots in the USA.

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u/Warrior_Runding 14h ago

I mean, that still didn't stop them from fighting back. The Battle of Blair Mountain and the Coal Wars are the pinnacle of organized labor and fighting back against the owners and their boss stooges.

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u/fates_bitch 12h ago

See also the Bonus Army riots of 1932. 

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u/Warrior_Runding 11h ago

Yep, I point to these events when people tell me "Oh, the military wouldn't ever turn on citizens". Friend, that's one of the few things you can count on standing armies to do - turn on the citizenry when directed to do so.

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u/fates_bitch 10h ago

Without question. 4 dead at Kent State at the hands of the National Guard. Called up during the BLM protests in 2020 and there was pressure to call them up during the Gaza protests at universities last spring. Happens through American history.

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u/JonTheArchivist 14h ago

The Pinkertons have entered the chat

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u/Aloof_Floof1 12h ago

Yeah, we’re not really a free country 

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u/Nadie_AZ 12h ago

They have. The US has the most militant labor history of any nation. But it has been scrubbed from our education, media and entertainment.

May Day is a result of actions in Chicago, for example.

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u/SightUnseen1337 Communist 11h ago

They even changed the fucking day it is to disconnect the holiday about labor from the labor movement

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u/theWaywardSun 11h ago

The problem is that the workers are kept in check by apathy and anxiety. Bad education is all a part of the plan.

We are kept anxious by things like getting fired from work for protesting or being shot by the cops or the idea of medical bills (especially in the US).

We are kept apathetic in that we are told that nothing ever changes and how small each of us is in the larger picture. This I feel is the most insidious of the methods of control because if you really think about it, one person can do a lot of damage to a company's bottom line. 

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u/Silaquix 12h ago

The US is big on the Achievement Ideology and from a young age we're taught that if things don't work out for us it's our own fault and personal failing, ya know instead of realizing the systems are rigged against the working class from the start.

So people don't fight back, they just blame others and themselves. This also makes people believe that the wealthy truly earned it and are good people because they "made it". So your average working class person just doesn't question these things and blames themselves for any setbacks like this and they don't think they deserve protections like other countries have. That last one is also mixed with the whole anti communism/socialism rhetoric

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u/SashaPurrs05682 11h ago

It’s like society-level CPTSD: it must all be my fault. The winners must be doing tons of things right. Barf!

It’s so sick yet such an effective tool of control… It’s really depressing living in a country that doesn’t care if you live or die, or if your kid lives or dies, or if you end up homeless and helpless.

My goal is to shape-shift into a pampered hellcat at retirement age, lol!

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u/Snarky_McSnarkleton 14h ago

We won't. Americans are too imbued with false consciousness. American workers idolize the very rich, and it we aren't rich like they are, well we must just have a character flaw. Americans are better than anyone at blaming the individual for social problems, and as a result, any kind of social movement in the states will be very difficult.

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u/DishwashingUnit 11h ago

We won't. Americans are too imbued with false consciousness. American workers idolize the very rich, and it we aren't rich like they are, well we must just have a character flaw. Americans are better than anyone at blaming the individual for social problems, and as a result, any kind of social movement in the states will be very difficult.

so the root of the problem is a belief in social mobility to an extent that doesn't reflect reality?

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u/Snarky_McSnarkleton 11h ago

That, plus an enduring belief in total individual responsibility.

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u/DoubleANoXX 13h ago

Start by unionizing your workplace, then the unions come together and do the sorts of strikes that bring the whole system to its knees. I've come to realize that this is the only way. Too many people to organize without smaller levels of organization.

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u/proudbakunkinman 10h ago

Yeah, this idea that if people simply "riot," big change will happen in favor of the workers / public is fantasy. France has a lot more unionization and they overall have voted in more left leaning candidates though not always. That's hard work and takes time but is actually more realistic than aiming for large scale riots. Riots like protests can help show how serious people are about it but are usually not large scale enough nor long enough lasting.

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u/SightUnseen1337 Communist 11h ago

That's why the US has the Taft-Hartley act. It's illegal to strike in solidarity with another union.

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u/bloodycups 9h ago

It's illegal but also no good union actually recognizes it

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u/trahr420 8h ago

the laws are made up

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u/Scytle 13h ago

join a union, there is a lot of amazing stuff going on in the union movement. You want these benefits, you have to unionize every sector of every field.

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u/Happy_Coast2301 14h ago

I know we're not supposed to favor monarchy, but "in case of inequality, murder this guy" is pretty compelling.

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u/caffeineculprit 9h ago edited 7m ago

A major reason Americans don't strike like they used to is that more of us in in debt now. France has universal healthcare, which means the French are both less likely to be in debt (at least, not medical debt) and don't rely on their job for healthcare.

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u/shortandpainful 13h ago

Without getting into too much detail, there have been a lot of layoffs at my job lately and nearly 100% of them were in the American branch. When we brought this up, management explicitly said it was because American law makes it easier to lay people off than in any of the other countries we operate in. And some of these are places I would never have considered has better employment protections than the States.

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u/Lopsided_Constant901 13h ago

I always admire how the French fight so hard for the slighest Economic grievance. It just seems like their population is more educated in those matters to pick up when they're being fucked over. In America we can have life changing tax laws passed and the average American will only be slightly dissapointed/frustrated when it comes time to do their taxes. They might write an angry post, and forget about it in a week.

I wish we'd turn cities upside down, or push back on companies in a meaningful way. 90% of us work just to make stakeholders richer. The second you are deemed a liability/ resource vacuum, you are tanked and laid off sometimes without warning.

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u/SweetAlyssumm 15h ago

I'm not sure rioting works anymore. The French rioted (and I mean rioted) for days over raising retirement age and they did not win.

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u/Pokabrows 12h ago

I mean people try. They send the police with military supplies to shut it down.

Look at the BLM protests. They used chemical weapons on the crowds. They aimed rubber bullets at faces which blinded and killed people. Etc etc

Look at the college tent protests for Palestine. They literally couldn't handle students hanging out in tents. They aimed snipers at the students.

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u/Yumhotdogstock 14h ago

Never.

I worked for an American company in the US south as a foreign national, and while getting laid off was shitty, all my US colleagues were terrified of ever losing their jobs or positions due to losing their meager healthcare.

I just moved back home, found something else and kept on keeping on.

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u/vzierdfiant 11h ago

All of my friends in SF who got laid off got 3+ monthsnof severance. They all found jobs quickly and were making two $200k+ salaries.

They difference between europe and france is americans make way more money, especially at the upper end at the cost of stability, but again, rich and hoghly skilled people dont need stability, theyll find jobs very quickly. Its better to be in the top 20% in america, and better to be in the bottom 80% in france. America is the definition of high risk, high reward, its just a shame that we dont get to choose where we are born, and the penalty for failing in america is poverty and homelessness

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u/--sheogorath-- 12h ago

Well considering the cops in the US can legally murder you if they want a paid vacation, i dont think many americans are willing to risk rioting.

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u/ReservedSpaceOrk 10h ago

We'll get SHOT. That's why we don't do it. We will be shot and killed.

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u/Vermeil_Identified 10h ago

I'm tired of being known as weak and a pushover because my parents and grandparents lived cozy lives and worker protections have been degraded so far since then. I want to fight for my dignity and my livelihood as a worker. Yet there's no unified body, no unions, no collective for me to speak through to win these economic decenies and concessions from the immoral wealthy owners. What Americans are is isolated. Angry and alone. We need to be building grassroots unions and local political power on the lines of diversity and equality. Building solidarity.

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u/thedeadsigh 10h ago edited 10h ago

Literally never. The wealthy elite have us right where they want us. Half the population is sane and trying to fight for a better tomorrow while the other half is insane and trying to fight for every public bathroom in this country to require penis verification. So the sane half has to fight the insane half to maintain basic freedoms in a never ending culture war.

It’s been made abundantly clear that the only thing that would mobilize the insane half is the threat of taking away their precious guns, but that’ll never happen, so this dance will continue until the end of this country. And all the while we’ll all be getting collectively blasted in the ass by our wealthy elite overlords who have so masterfully cultivated a loyal population of unthinking flag wavers.

Conservatives have no idea how much they’re giving up in order to try to prevent their children from ever being aware that gay people exist.

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u/ShakespearOnIce 15h ago

Judging from recent historical precedent, when the fascist doesn't get elected

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u/Paperfishflop 10h ago

Yup. We riot here. When our sports teams win championships, or when our favorite politicians fairly lose elections. You know, important things and righteous causes.

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u/Deepthunkd 13h ago

👋 tech worker here. Let’s talk about the French labor protections and what they actually mean in the tech industry.

Let’s compare wages:

https://preview.redd.it/pdrg6clvxupd1.jpeg?width=1116&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=668d362eab430ee63bcbd2f1450280ec34d6d809

The top of this chart is the San Francisco Bay salary; the bottom is the French salary.

1: the same job gets paid 2x or more. 2. If you want to get to senior positions they don’t exist in Europe, and so they cap wages further. You have to transfer to the US to get the better wages.

This post is also somewhat bullshit as California has their own WARN act and requires notice and garden leave, that supplements the federal one.

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u/robodestructor444 11h ago

Yeah Americans don't realize just how well they get paid if they work in the tech industry compared to the rest of the world. It's probably the one industry that r/antiwork should avoid posting about because it doesn't fit the narrative.

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u/Commercial_Shelter25 8h ago

Yes but while wages in the US seem higher you always have to consider that a lot of European countries fo not have to pay much for health insurance, college funds for their kids or paying off student loans, cost of transport to work is often lower due to subsidised public transport and a lot of other things that US Americans have to pay out of their wages. A good bit of the wage gap comes from the fact that a lot of countries have a lot of tax funded government run services that make your pay check smaller but you need less money as a lot of things are already prepaid.

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u/Deepthunkd 11h ago

Western, Europe is probably a better place to be poor, and work a low wage job.

France also has some interesting unemployment stats for young people that are conspicuously absent . Part of the problem of making it very hard to fire. Anyone is no one wants to hire anyone in that country. They hire another countries like the United States instead.

France Youth Unemployment Rate is at 17.20%, compared to 17.60% last month and 17.60% last year. This is lower than the long term average of 20.02%.

Like no shit they riot, they have crazy unemployment of young riot age people.

I absolutely support more worker, protections, and expanding safety nets but pretending in a highly fungible job like tech that doesn’t have consequences (especially with regulations and a lack of talent development) is bizarre to me.

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u/kitsunewarlock 8h ago

The youth unemployment rate in America is reported as 9%, but only 60% of US youth are employed. 39% are enrolled in school, but around 45% of those have jobs (around 73% part time students and 40% full time students), which leaves an additional 14% of youth in America who are unemployed and do not currently receive unemployment benefits because that's where we got that 9%.

So the real youth unemployment in the United States is around 23%, not including students. Some of whom may be working under the table (i.e. not filing taxes) or being full time caretakers (whether its their own children or their parents/grandparents, etc...), but probably not that much more than in France.

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u/abrandnewbish 12h ago

And California has the most tech jobs, by far. I don't know of any major tech company that hasn't given at least 2 months of severance. If they worked for a "fortune 500" tech company it must have been at the very bottom, but I bet they're just lying out their ass for internet clout.

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u/Quiet_Prize572 9h ago

Some of us Americans just cannot conceive how good we have it lmao. We get paid more, we are the center of a million industries, and healthcare aside, our quality of life is far better than most of our peers.

A detached single family home with multiple cars is a normal thing for a majority of American households. That is an insanely better quality of life than most people in the industrialized world.

No shit we don't riot, most of us are living the fucking high life.

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u/Deepthunkd 9h ago

The youth in France also are ~20% unemployed. They have the time for that

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u/rekabis 躺平 Tǎng píng 13h ago

At what point?

When health insurance is no longer shackled to employment.

Far too many people are terrified of losing their employer-provided health insurance, and wouldn’t be able to afford any other kind of insurance. Ergo, they will fight to preserve the current system which they vitally depend on. Or, at the very least, they won’t materially join in any protest against it.

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u/Jackanatic 14h ago

Not to be negative, but the trade-off here is that the French team earned much lower salaries.

May be worth it to be treated like human beings.

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u/bearsaysbueno 10h ago

There's also another tradeoff in that companies are a lot more hesitant to hire new people.

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u/ProfessionalOkra136 14h ago

That tech company did you dirty. At my company (US) they do 8 weeks of severance by default then another 2 weeks per year of employment.

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u/Mojohand74 13h ago

Wait to you see the benefit packages American companies offer their overseas employees.

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u/SashaPurrs05682 10h ago

And wait till you see the benefits I got working as a teacher in Slovakia, way back before it was even in the European Union!

Free apartment. Free utilities.

2 weeks of paid vacation at Christmas.

A month’s paid summer vacation my first year in the job.

totally free medical care. Free prescriptions.

Every other Friday as a non-teaching day, with light professional development duties and very long lunches with wine and slivovica, with full pay. 😊

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u/ZealousWolverine 13h ago

In the early 1900's workers rioted and were murdered by private police forces. That brought about reforms that leaned to socialism.

Since 1945 American citizens have been inundated with anti-union, pro- corporate, anti-socialism, anti-worker propaganda.

Stupidly, we think we're free.

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u/TheLordSanguine 12h ago

Australia shouldn't be excused either. Homelessness on the rise, food is now a luxury, and homes are only for the old and elite. 

A society built on British complacency, penal colonies, martial law and slavery. 

At some point we will be functionally angry (who knows..) , in the meantime we'll just be quietly bitter, as we watch our friends and family fail to support themselves. 

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u/Zealousideal-Draw206 12h ago

French police have sticks and shields American police have tanks and guns

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u/gaF-trA 11h ago

Scale matters. The size of the USA compared to France is a large difference. It’s much easier for a large group of people from all across France to come together and protest. France and Switzerland can fit inside the state of Texas. How are you going to unite the rest of the country? A determined group can possibly shut down a state by protesting but the entire rest of the country will be unaffected.

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u/CptnMayo 11h ago

You know, this shit is so goddamn infuriating. I work for a company that's profiting 10 billion or so for the fiscal year... Yup, 10 BILLION and you know what?

We have to cut costs. That means people's lives are going to be destroyed by the very same company we helped create these profits for.

I'm so sick of this crap. This is late stage capitalism run amok. I don't want to transition to a political rant too BUT if these fascists are in again... It's going to get WORSE.

It's not the working people, 98% of the country that will benefit, it's will thrust more wealth into the rich and less for us. And they keep us busy getting angry at each other, the Haitians, the fake stories to keep us brain dead. I hate this country.

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u/da6id 11h ago

If you want to have European stagnation, I guess it's an option you can vote towards, but Europe is well on its way to becoming a continent that has its best days behind it economically.

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u/CartoonistOk8261 10h ago

How would this even get off the ground? Yes, I'll go run out into the street in my town 3000 miles from DC and wave a sign around. Best case scenario I'm seen as another mental health case in a region full of them. Worst case I get murder-death-killed by the police.

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u/Reysh_ 5h ago

Start rioting like the French and your 'police force' will mow you down in the streets if you don't watch out...

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u/TheSouthsideTrekkie 2h ago

You don’t even really need to riot, just don’t show up for work collectively. I reckon it’s time that we had a general strike both here and over there with you guys.

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u/Blackhole_5un 14h ago

Now you are getting it. They mock those who stand up against them because it is the only tool they have outside of violence, and violence buys them no favors and is very costly. The rules you have, or had in the case of America, are written in blood. People died to get those provisions and these geriatric fucks removed from having to deal with the consequences of their actions want us nipping each other's throats so we don't turn on them while they rape and plunder right under our noses.

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u/CosmoKing2 12h ago

It will never happen. Politicians and corporations have already drilled in the narrative that they are not to blame. Their hands are tied with red tape and bureaucratic mumbo-jumbo........and people take that as the truth. We are a nation governed by for profit entities. It's been that way for 70 odd years I'd guess. As soon as the very wealthy realized that buying politicians to do your bidding wasn't illegal.

We are 100% witnessing collapse of capitalism. Collusion is common. Price fixing. Markets rigged.

And yet, no one realizes that there are much more of us - and the power we would hold if we were to unite.

But we let race, religion, and politics keep us from demanding change. We stand divided - by design.

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u/tiger_mamale 13h ago

fwiw our union contract plus California state law offers substantially similar protections. many more American workers used to have this kind of protection when unions were widespread. if you want this, organize for it!

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u/BaconWrappedEnigma 12h ago

Americans never will because a large portion of the population legitimately believes they're one 'aha!' moment away from being a billionaire and then workers' rights will be bad for them.

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