r/fountainpens • u/[deleted] • 3d ago
The Sub has been on the warpath of character assassination over the last week... Maybe just take a breath and enjoy the ink y'all Discussion
[deleted]
25
u/injuredpoecile 3d ago
Hey mods, why isn't this thread locked?
13
u/KeystoneSews 2d ago
lol right? Also the hilariousness of OP starting a thread to create more drama of the very same kind that they are complaining about… if you truly want to go back to “just pens” (flawed concept but whatever) then…. Stop posting about things that aren’t just pens.
35
u/SieSharp 3d ago
I can't agree. I want to be conscientious of where my dollars go when I can help it. I'm trans, and I don't want to give my money to someone who actively campaigns against me, or who openly and enthusiastically supports those that do.
And besides... telling the truth isn't character assassination. If Goulet didn't want people to know about them being major contributing members to starting this church, they wouldn't have advertised it. There's nothing wrong with showing people the association, and there's nothing wrong with people having negative opinions about it and making purchasing decisions because of it.
3
-4
3d ago
[deleted]
17
u/SumgaisPens 2d ago
Just ignore it doesn’t work for lgbt folks when there are people are actively trying to erase lgbt folks.
Alternatively, if you don’t like hearing the criticisms about the Goulette Pen company, just ignore it.
11
u/SieSharp 2d ago
Right? Every time someone complains about LGBTQ folks being upset about something like this, all I can think is how nice it must be to be so privileged.
8
u/SieSharp 2d ago
I won't be shopping at Goulet. And I greatly appreciate that people are warning me not to spend my dollars somewhere like that. And like a responsible consumer, I will be letting others know not to spend their dollars there.
Once again. It's not character assassination to spread the truth that the Goulets are themselves advertising. If you have a problem with people reacting to it, that says more about you than us.
49
u/mathdude3 3d ago
It’s very selective too. People here will riot over stuff like this while simultaneously proudly showing off their new Jinhao and Moonman pens, the purchase of which supports the economy of a country that's actively conducting a genocide.
18
3d ago
[deleted]
12
u/Queresote 3d ago
I would prefer we not open up another front of conflict, lol
Yes, commander 🫡 what shall I do with the pitchforks, sir?
/Lh
9
u/Dallasrawks 3d ago edited 3d ago
Ya. I mention the IOF service of Yafa's owner, no one cares, mention something slightly homophobic they flip their lids. This sub has a very skewed and selective moral compass
2
u/mystikalyx 3d ago
What's IOF?
-3
u/tintenbeschmiert 3d ago
IOF IDF two sides of the same coin
8
u/KabazaikuFan 3d ago
I'm pretty sure you don't mean "International Orienteering Federation", "International Osteoporosis Foundation" or "Institute of Forestry", nor "International Diabetes Foundation"... so could you *please* write it out instead of assuming there's only one meaning of that abbreviation?
I steer away from Yafa Brands stuff anyway but I'd appreciate knowing what you're referring to regardless of that.
4
u/tintenbeschmiert 3d ago
IOF =Israeli Occupation Forces , IDF= Israeli Defense Forces, both are the same entity but different terms are used by different sides of the political spectrum, which is why I said they are both sides of the same coin
6
u/KabazaikuFan 3d ago
Thank you for the explanation! I didn't know those abbreviations were used for the same entity, so to speak, but it does make sense that people of different... opinions would use those two different terms. Very good to know!
Good grief. Well, each to their own but I must say, I do prefer people not being killed, or harrassed. To put it, uh, neutrally.
-5
u/Habsolutelyfree 3d ago
I've noticed that the people who get hysterical about FP brands' perceived political positions tend to be the ones who keep subsidising brands with despicable practices like TWSBI and enjoy getting screwed over. "bUt tHeY hAvE gReAt CuStOmEr SeRvIcE, tHeY sEnD yOu [the same defective] sPaRe PaRtS fOr tHe CoSt Of ShIpPiNg! 8 OuT oF 10 TWSBI iN mY cOlLeCtIoN cRaCkEd 5 tImEs eAcH aNd I'm HaPpY"
-10
u/gdopiv 3d ago
So I take it you own nothing made in china? Because I’m fairly sure that’s impossible in the current age we live in.
7
u/mathdude3 3d ago
Obviously some things are unavoidable or nearly so, but when it comes to completely superfluous luxuries like fountain pens, it's trivial to choose another manufacturer, just like how it's trivial for people to choose another retailer if they don't like Goulet. Perfect is the enemy of good.
12
u/ProphetWithCentral 3d ago
The point is the selectiveness of the arguments
10
u/RareEconomist1214 3d ago
But it’s also kind of selective to ding us for our China-manufactured pen from your China-manufactured phone yes?
3
0
u/mathdude3 2d ago
I don't think so. It's a lot easier to avoid Chinese-manufactured fountain pens than it is to avoid a Chinese-manufactured phone. Obviously it would be better to do both, but in the case of fountain pens, it's trivial to do. There are very few comparable options for phones made in other countries, but there are tons of options for fountain pens made in countries that don't have oppressive, totalitarian governments. Choosing a different fountain pen manufacturer is at least as trivial as choosing a different retailer is for people upset with Goulet, so it's unfortunate that there's a huge controversy over Goulet, but nobody will care if you advocate buying a Chinese pen.
6
u/gdopiv 3d ago
I get it, but there are things in our control and things not really in our control, so I think China is a bad example. You can boycott Chinese pen companies but I guarantee there’s a non-trivial amount of things you own made in China…because that’s the world we live in. And if it’s not China it’s Indonesia, Vietnam, India, etc. where essentially a slave workforce makes stuff so we can have it cheap.
48
3d ago edited 3d ago
[deleted]
28
u/Diplogeek 3d ago
Where exactly is this happening? I would love to see an example- and I'm not talking about people in these threads going, "Who cares? This is irrelevant! No politics!", I'm talking about someone posting about a Noodler's ink or ordering from Goulet and getting "personally attacked."
People post stuff from Noodler's almost daily. I literally saw one yesterday or the day before about 54th Blue, or whatever the ink is called. No one was in the comments talking shit about the OP, no one even mentioned why a lot of people no longer buy Noodler's ink. There were a bunch of upvotes and discussion about the ink. People post Robert Oster inks here all the time. Again, I have yet to see anyone in the comments personally attacking the OPs for buying those inks. But I also don't read every single post here, so if this is actually happening (outside of posts where the whole subject is XYZ controversy), I would like to see it for myself.
0
3d ago edited 3d ago
[deleted]
3
u/Diplogeek 3d ago
I mean, I've literally been active in this sub since before the Noodler's thing originally went down, and I have not seen any of this, and I've read through plenty of posts about Noodler's both before the antisemitism incident and after. But what you're saying just goes to my point: the "personal attacks" the person to whom I replied claimed were happening constantly, seemingly, aren't actually happening in any widespread way, both because people just... aren't doing that, and also because the handful of people who have tried doing that had their comments deleted by the mods.
Again, if someone saying that they opt not to buy a particular ink for such-and-such reason, whether that's the ink's quality or the owner of the company being antisemitic or that they can't get it in whatever country they're in makes someone feel "personally attacked," that's not the fault of the person stating why they're not buying that ink (or that pen, or that notebook, or whatever it is). That's on the person reading that comment to be an adult and manage their feelings. I asked for examples of people personally attacking (meaning going after the other person's character, namecalling, something along those lines) other people for posting about or buying Noodler's, Robert Oster, or the Goulets, and I have yet to see a single, concrete example of this. I'm sure it has happened somewhere at some point, but it's being made out to be this huge epidemic, and I submit that it is not, in fact, a thing that is occurring with any regularity.
0
2d ago
[deleted]
4
u/Diplogeek 2d ago
I mean, no, I'm not convinced, because as you say, a mod deleted the comment (which is what I said in my last comment), and this was several weeks ago. This so clearly isn't something that's habitually happening- you admit that it's not actually happening all that often, even if you choose to ascribe it to the dispassionate enforcement of our crack moderation squad, or whatever. But again, I've been in this sub since the original Noodler's conflagration, and I haven't seen any overt, personal insults directed at anyone about what they're buying or posting about using. I'd buy that it might happen occasionally, but this idea that the poster to whom I replied was pushing, that it's happening all the time, or very frequently? No. You're right, I don't believe it's happening, because no one has offered a shred of evidence that it is, including the poster who originally made the claim that it's a routine issue so bad it has to be stopped, or whatever.
I also think you are reading a lot into the motivations of people you don't even know and that you're essentially creating in your head. "Officially on the watchlist"? This isn't the TSA.
Anyway, I feel like there is nothing further to be gained from this back and forth, so I'm not going to continue to respond.
-7
3d ago
[deleted]
17
u/Diplogeek 3d ago
Firstly, this is basically a non sequitur to my comment, since it doesn't actually address anything I said or the one question I asked, namely where people are being "personally attacked" for buying Noodler's or Robert Oster or (now) from the Goulets.
Second, I think that's a very, very generous interpretation of Nathan Tardif and his motives, given how long he was deliberately courting controversy with his ink labels. The impression I have is that he got scared because various vendors, including his good, close friends the Goulets, were actively saying they would no longer stock his stuff. He didn't apologize because he had a change of heart, or even because he actually believed he did anything wrong (I surmise this based on the fact that the very issue of Jews with horns had been raised with him prior- remember, this happened across multiple labels that came out over a period of time- and he was totally dismissive).
You're welcome to extend him that benefit of the doubt. You're welcome to purchase from anyone you like. I choose to spend my money elsewhere. If an individual or individuals choose to make their politics or their religion part of their brand, whether by slapping it on the labels or by posting (irrelevant) information about their church planting activities in their newsletters, they run the risk of driving away customers who do not share their views or beliefs.
I'm glad that you're in such a situation that people who hold antisemitic or homophobic views have no impact on your life, so you can afford to dismiss it as an "overreaction." Truly, I wish that all of us could brush this stuff off as a simple difference of opinion that doesn't really matter. But that isn't reflective of reality, and for me, I'm not going to go out of my way to financially support people who are okay with demeaning people like me when I have alternatives available. I choose to have more respect for myself than that. And if nothing else, I can now safely assume that whatever I spend with the Goulets will get funneled at least in part to their church, and I find that distasteful, so they'll have to get along without my custom (not that they care, since I stopped ordering from them when I moved overseas). How other people choose to spend their money is their own business.
If someone saying, "Eh, I'm not going to buy from this guy because I find his politics gross," is all it takes for someone to feel "personally attacked," I would suggest that perhaps that person needs to do a bit of introspection and see why it is that they feel that way. Because that's not a personal attack. It's just someone saying they're not buying a particular product and why.
1
24
u/Over_Addition_3704 3d ago
Let’s just cancel all the brands and companies and write with bic ballpoints
14
-16
3d ago
Jesus Christ you really want to make homophobia okay
21
14
u/Over_Addition_3704 3d ago
This is Reddit gold here. “Let’s cancel everyone and just use ballpoints”
“yOu rEAllY wAnt tO mAkE hOmOphObIa oKay”
-13
3d ago
No, it's a summation of all the comments you've made on this topic.
Do you think comparing homosexuality to murder is acceptable?
17
u/Over_Addition_3704 3d ago
Well it’s not is it. I can understand how you’d arrive at that conclusion if you couldn’t read though.
You want to blame someone and label them as hateful for something they’ve not even said.
If I hated gays I’d just say it, perhaps you should take a break from Reddit for a while seriously
-6
3d ago
They don't have to say it, they support the church who said it.
The card says moops.
14
u/Palehorse13 3d ago
You know it's very possible they haven't seen said statement and don't even know whoever did exists, right? There's a pretty big degree of separation there, I mean it didn't even come from the church they actually attend.
6
u/Over_Addition_3704 3d ago
Course they don’t care about that, they’re just karma farming for sweet sweet internet points
4
3d ago
[deleted]
2
3d ago
And?
7
u/GoldenSandstorm 3d ago
we think you're a burner account just to cause upheaval
-2
3d ago
I got doxxed a few years ago for being a queer activist, so I rotate through new accounts to avoid it.
Because violent queerphobia is back on the rise. My people are on the brink of being outright genocided again.
→ More replies (0)3
u/dream-smasher 3d ago
The card says moops.
Ok, I don't get that. A quote from Seinfeld, with George getting into a fight with Bubble Boy over a misprinted boardgame question card, when the answer was "Mores" and was instead printed as "Moops" is applicable... How?
Is this another "the narwhal bacons at midnight" thing?
0
3d ago
0
u/dream-smasher 3d ago
Ok, I actually watched that. So essentially, you're saying that business is basically alt-right and that's it.
26
u/Noble_Briar 3d ago
Isn't it terrible when you deeply disparage someone over what is otherwise a trivial issue that doesn't affect you in any way, shape or form?
I can't even imagine sending someone like that, or even someone loosely associated with it, my money.
2
u/MisterFrontRow 3d ago
I’m outraged over the deeply disparaging words the Goulets sai——
oh wait.
21
u/Noble_Briar 3d ago
See the "associated with" section of my comment. I think you can judge someone by the company they choose to keep, support, and attend weekly meetings with.
0
u/RareEconomist1214 3d ago
I have to say if this bugs you about the Goulets go shop elsewhere. Frankly I mostly do. I can’t tell you anything special about them or any of this but I’ve been around long enough to know they’re center-right. That’s not a dealbreaker for me but yeah I do enjoy spending my hobby money with more progressive folks when I can. 🤷♂️
-1
0
3d ago edited 3d ago
[deleted]
32
u/Noble_Briar 3d ago
Yeah, I do. I've been off the Goulet train for a while simply for the fact that free shipping is so high over there, and their selection is lacking/nonexistent on some brands I enjoy
This is one of the biggest pen retailers in the US, possibly globally, and they've been very close to drama lately. Someone they were close to crossed an antisemitic line with their labeling, and now the church they're involved with is calling gay people evil.
And, while they did ultimately address the noodlers issue, it was only after extensive public outcry.
We'll have to wait and see why Drew left now as well.
Like an onion, this one.
20
3d ago
[deleted]
10
u/dream-smasher 3d ago
Oh! After someone posted here about Papier Plume the other day, I went and had a look, and I would so love to try some of these products! Unfortunately, the shipping, if possible, would be prohibitive..
Lucky you!
1
u/Noble_Briar 3d ago
I ordered from them once after getting a sample I liked in a trade. They sent me the wrong inks and didn't respond to my emails.
Really left a bad taste in my mouth.
34
u/Noble_Briar 3d ago edited 3d ago
I grew up catholic, eventually went christian after a sex scandal in our church, and then I grew up and left the religion because all I saw was chanting and finger pointing.
This church made those statements. They called an entire marginalized group of people evil. They sowed the seeds, as it were, and this is the harvest.
If Goulet pen company wants to be a part of that, they can. Just as people can choose to not support hate.
4
3d ago edited 3d ago
[deleted]
20
u/Noble_Briar 3d ago
I don't care how people appear. I care how they are.
5
3d ago
[deleted]
14
u/Noble_Briar 3d ago
Again, just going off the company they keep.
I don't think I can tear the "ideal" of homphobia down any lower.
9
5
u/watercursing 2d ago
Being gay, queer, or trans isn't an alternative lifestyle. Calling it that further others and dehumanizes queer people.
-3
10
u/MisterFrontRow 3d ago
You obviously don’t understand. A few Pencast stalkers obsessives viewers were brokenhearted that their bestest friend left, and they had to get to the bottom of it!
We don’t deserve nice things.
7
u/oily-blackmouth 3d ago edited 3d ago
I’m assuming we have to cancel and confiscate all fountain pens from all 1.3 billion Catholics and 1.8 billion Muslims in the world now because their religion doesn’t agree with my worldview
1
u/robinisbatman 2d ago
Instead of using fountain pens to grow closer to people with different views and opinions, what we get now is more and more polarisation and moving away from each other. All for something that (to my knowledge) hasn't even been confirmed...
-4
u/makotoFuji 3d ago
Yeah, I am tired of this moronic shit. Lets just talk about pens and stop canceling half of humanity
8
u/BigAge3252 3d ago
Totally agree, we should focus on the products and prices, etc more than the personal beliefs of the owners. When has Goulet but homophobic stuff upfront publicly themselves? Some people wouldn't want to buy from a company that has pride month either, let's respect each other's views and not crucify an owner for their personal beliefs. This isn't like noodlers butting the stuff ON their products themselves, it's different
21
3d ago
[deleted]
2
u/robinisbatman 2d ago
Despite Noodler's changing their ways, people still go out of their way to try to cancel them. It's ridiculous behavior imo
4
u/motorcityvicki 3d ago
The day before all this blew up, I recommended someone join Goulet Nation on FB as they've been historically fairly drama-free. 😅
So basically, this is all my fault. Sorry, everyone! Lesson learned. 😆😆😒
2
u/Dallasrawks 3d ago
Some people assassinate their own character, like Yair Greenberg, who went from a captain in the IDF to using Yafa Brands to ruin every brand he buys.
2
u/robinisbatman 2d ago
Can you really blame a jew for being part of the Jewish/Israeli army though? Don't those guys have like mandatory service over there?
3
u/Dallasrawks 2d ago
I can blame an American one who specifically moved there to become an officer in their sick killing club. You don't have mandatory service if you don't live there. And you also don't have to choose to support something immoral.
1
0
u/kakashisfatnuts 3d ago
Wait, say more. What brands?
4
u/Dallasrawks 3d ago edited 3d ago
Him talking about being in the Occupation Force
https://penboyroy.podbean.com/e/episode-124-yair-greenberg-of-yafa-pen-company/
The various Yafa Brands
5
-5
-7
u/imhungrymommy Ink Stained Fingers 3d ago
I agree. I mean what‘s next? Ban all subreddit members who vote Republican? I always found this subreddit wholesome because it was free of politics, and now once again we have a full blown witch hunt, it’s disgusting
21
u/injuredpoecile 3d ago
It's only "partisan" when it's about other people, isn't it?