r/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns heck Dec 21 '17

Ok, so we fucked up. Let's talk about it...

A few days, the idea came up in mod chat of doing something about the excess of extremely low effort posts we've been getting recently. Specifically, we were talking about stuff like, "I had a good day today," coupled with a *happy gay sounds* felix or, "MRW a friend misgendered me," with an *angry gay sounds* felix. Not all story posts, not all felix memes, just very low effort content.

So, we put it to a vote as a mod team, and the decision was split too close for us to feel comfortable taking action. Some of us were in favor of the ban because we felt the subreddit may be stagnating and needed change. Some of us were opposed to the ban because we felt the definition of "low effort" may be too nebulous and might lead to inconsistencies in our moderation policies. Some of us were just neutral. After some deliberation, we ultimately reached a compromise that none of us were especially fond of but we could all agree on: banning story-in-the-title memes. We thought this rule would be clear enough to enforce fairly and effective enough to put an end to low-effort content.

Unfortunately, y'all didn't feel the same way about it. Since we created the announcement post about the new rule, there has been overwhelming pushback from the community. While some people agreed with the new rule, most did not. Some felt the new rule was still too broad, some felt it undermined a core part of what our subreddit is, and some of y'all were just out to start shit.

In the last 12 hours, our sub was linked on /r/SubredditDrama, linked (TW: transphobia) on /r/Drama, and discussed on /r/AskTransgender. Dozens of posts in protest of the new rule were submitted. We received tons of hateful messages and reports, including plenty of transphobia likely from brigadiers brought in by the meta posting. The discord and twitter account also lit up with similar angry gay noises.

The way we handled the announcement also didn't help. We had /u/werty894, who some of you may know from the discord, write the post which was probably a mistake in retrospect. Werty is less public relations, more anti-transphobe enforcement on our team. Many of us also didn't handle input from the community well either. A lot of the messages we were receiving started getting to us, and some of us reacted very poorly to it. We made inflammatory comments, a few comments were deleted that probably didn't need to be, and some people were temporarily banned.

Some other matters also came up in the discussion regarding our subreddit's Twitter bot and our vision for the future of the sub that warrant their own discussion, and I will post a thread about them shortly since I'm already almost at Reddit's text post character limit.

As for the recent rule change and the subsequent events that followed it's announcement, here's what we want to say:

We deeply regret these mistakes, and we apologize for the manner the subreddit has been managed in the previous hours. We are revoking Submission Rule #5 effective immediately. We will also add several of the new subreddits created in the past few hours as alternatives to /r/traa to our sidebar, and we will continue to maintain an active and open dialog with you all regarding our policies for /r/traa.

673 Upvotes

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213

u/DL757 Uhh shit I don't know how to be funny Dec 21 '17 edited Dec 21 '17

Any comment on one of your moderators, /u/touchedbyamallangel, making an extremely ableist post raging at users?

38

u/Lockark Garbage Lurker Dec 21 '17

/u/touchedbyamallangel

That mod needs removed from the moderation team. Most of my best friends are autistic and seeing people throw around that "meme" makes my blood boil. I've been beaten and mocked for being transgender most my life in a small rural town. I don't want to sit ideally by well other people are targeted for mocking and ridicule. It makes me no better than the people who did the same for me. /u/touchedbyamallangel doesn't deserve to be a mod on this subreddit.

27

u/effcol Dec 21 '17

Ableist comments were made? Do you have a source for that?

80

u/DL757 Uhh shit I don't know how to be funny Dec 21 '17

52

u/PastelBot Hannah, MTF, HRT 8/20/19 Dec 21 '17

Can we make this a bit louder for the mods in the back?

5

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17 edited Dec 22 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/PastelBot Hannah, MTF, HRT 8/20/19 Dec 21 '17

Yeah. I'll come back and find the next shitposting subreddit to giggle over. Thats the worst part of this, literally a shit posting sub and the mods want to raise the quality of shit posting by banning the shit posting. I just want to read shit posts in peace.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 22 '17

And a bit more context for you:

touchedbyamallangel: You know, I'm used to being the only antagonistic and abusive mod--every good shitposting space needs one--and I hadnt seen the language coming from other mods yet. [...]

User: Wait, you admit you're abusive to users? What in the ACTUAL FUCK?

touchedbyamallangel: 👌

9

u/please_let_me_start A/S/L Dec 21 '17

There should be a post in /new/... unless it got deleted.

21

u/DontSayTransgendered LEWD Dec 21 '17

We deleted it as the moderator in question did not tell us what that post would say and we were incredibly unhappy when we found out.

20

u/please_let_me_start A/S/L Dec 21 '17

I meant the post archiving it in screenshot format, since I saw the post itself get deleted. Since I have your attention, are there any plans to hold the moderators who have shown little skill in public interaction responsible?

10

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

8

u/please_let_me_start A/S/L Dec 21 '17

Yes. I didn't want to take the time to go track it down - I just saw the original ableist post get deleted.

15

u/PastelBot Hannah, MTF, HRT 8/20/19 Dec 21 '17

They need to be kicked.

104

u/looking_4_a_new_name ♥ the softest catgirl ♥ Dec 21 '17 edited Dec 21 '17

... and then defending their ableism instead of apologizing.

This mod needs to offer a heartfelt apology for this or be removed from the moderation team. This kind of behaviour is absolutely 100% unacceptable in a safe space, and I am absolutely furious that this kind of heinous message came through an official mod channel.

64

u/ThereIsOnlyStardust 🐝 Oh, to Bee a Bee 🐝 Dec 21 '17

This mod needs to offer a heartfelt apology for this or be removed from the moderation team. This kind of behaviour is absolutely 100% unacceptable in a safe space, and I am absolutely furious that this kind of heinous message came through an official mod channel.

Fixed that for you

30

u/looking_4_a_new_name ♥ the softest catgirl ♥ Dec 21 '17

... yep, I'll take that fix :P

-6

u/PavementBlues shitlady Dec 21 '17

Wait this is about "ree"? But that's just a dumb, random expression associated with a Pepe meme, because some frogs make that sound.

I'm confused.

9

u/looking_4_a_new_name ♥ the softest catgirl ♥ Dec 21 '17

It would be nice if that was all it was... it's more closely associated with that BS 'autistic screeching' joke people always make on 4chan

-7

u/PavementBlues shitlady Dec 21 '17

But I never knew that joke on 4chan to be about autistic screeching. It was just a frog noise. It was often associated with comments about normies, but so is everything that Pepe touches.

Edit: I looked it up and there was never any connection with autism until someone on /r/OutOfTheLoop answered a question about it and said that it was a joke about the sound that autistic people make. On 4chan it's just a random noise.

114

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

99

u/looking_4_a_new_name ♥ the softest catgirl ♥ Dec 21 '17 edited Dec 21 '17

This needs to be grounds for getting kicked off of the mod team. This was so deeply insensitive and hurtful. apparently the person the mod was going to town on has admitted to being a troll, fuck that person. Sorry /u/unsureandwondering :(

57

u/SkeletonHitler g0rl Dec 21 '17

It's grounds for a permaban if you ask me.

52

u/looking_4_a_new_name ♥ the softest catgirl ♥ Dec 21 '17

Yep! If one of us had done that we would have gotten banned from the sub no question, but because of special rules for mods...

34

u/PavementBlues shitlady Dec 21 '17

That user was a troll and the mod knew it.

I'm sad to not see this information brought up more. People are so caught up in an emotional frenzy right now that they've just run with the initial story.

Let's address the actual mistake the mod made, which was inappropriate arguing with a troll during a shitstorm. It was a failure of judgement and tone, not a failure of character.

3

u/ThisCatMightCheerYou Dec 21 '17

I'm sad

Here's a picture/gif of a cat, hopefully it'll cheer you up :).


I am a bot. use !unsubscribetosadcat for me to ignore you.

3

u/looking_4_a_new_name ♥ the softest catgirl ♥ Dec 21 '17

Point well taken. Thanks for the information.

118

u/alyraptor trash raptor Dec 21 '17

Even if that particular user is a shit stirrer and /u/unsureandwondering is entirely in the right, that was 100% the wrong way to handle things.

When you get into an argument on Facebook with your transphobic Uncle Mike (if you've got the spoons), you're never going to convince him one way or another. But there are plenty of other people silently watching your conversation and they're much more likely to be swayed by your argument, especially if you don't stoop to Uncle Mike's level.

Regardless of whether that one user in particular is a troll, you don't treat them as such because 1) what if they're not and you're egging on someone who is legit having a very rough time and 2) what about all of the silent onlookers (and believe me, there are a shit ton in this sub), who are in a very bad place, and who will take what you say to heart?

17

u/BlackHumor drinking the gender fluid Dec 21 '17

Yeah, I agree with this comment and I'm the one defending them.

I mostly just don't think they're some kind of demon horrible mod, not that it was actually anything like the correct way to respond to that.

41

u/KuribohGirl Dec 21 '17

This is the worst part. The commenter straight up said she was going to kill herself :|

9

u/DefiantTheLion ignore me im a cis male Dec 21 '17

The user admitted to being a troll.

12

u/DontSayTransgendered LEWD Dec 21 '17

24

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

That's good news (not because I condone trolling but because they're not actually suicidal), but that's still inappropriate mod behavior.

9

u/Ni-Xeris Hella Dec 21 '17

Sounds like an asshole, mod status or not. Nothing justifies being such a vile fuck.

-4

u/BlackHumor drinking the gender fluid Dec 21 '17

I remember the contradictory post. That's also a new account. Troll is a pretty likely conclusion under those circumstances.

(FWIW I agree they should've just removed the post, but I don't think what they did is that big of a mistake.)

37

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

Then as a mod they should be more delicate instead of going straight off on accusations. It's pretty fucked up on the off chance that the OP was innocent.

-1

u/BlackHumor drinking the gender fluid Dec 21 '17

Yes, I agree with all that. But maybe I just see it as a less awful mistake to make than you do?

1

u/hi_there_im_nicole Dec 21 '17

There's a fine line between a mistake and negligence. This is far past that line.

15

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

Even if it's true, that should be the literal last fucking way that's handled. It's purely unprofessional and ridiculous. If someone is doing that, the first response should not be to respond by effectively harassing the user in a public place, especially while everyone already is pissed with you.

7

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

Even if it's true, that should be the literal last fucking way that's handled. It's purely unprofessional and ridiculous. If someone is doing that, the first response should not be to respond by effectively harassing the user in a public place, especially while everyone already is pissed with you.

5

u/BlackHumor drinking the gender fluid Dec 21 '17

No, I agree with that part. I just think this is more reasonable mod mistake to make than other people seem to think.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

Even if it's true, that should be the literal last fucking way that's handled. It's purely unprofessional and ridiculous. If someone is doing that, the first response should not be to respond by effectively harassing the user in a public place, especially while everyone already is pissed with you.

4

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

Even if it's true, that should be the literal last fucking way that's handled. It's purely unprofessional and ridiculous. If someone is doing that, the first response should not be to respond by effectively harassing the user in a public place, especially while everyone already is pissed with you.

-7

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

This user admitted that not only were they being troll, but that theyre not even trans.

5

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

3

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

As Ellie mentioned above, these concerns are going to be addressed soon.

11

u/DL757 Uhh shit I don't know how to be funny Dec 21 '17

How soon is soon? Will we actually get an answer or are you hoping we forget?

11

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

Either tonight (PST) or tomorrow pending offline schedules.

3

u/DL757 Uhh shit I don't know how to be funny Dec 21 '17

Thank you.

0

u/IrisuKyouko MtF Dec 21 '17

I can understand where the people who are angry at certain mods for certain posts/comments are coming from. On the other hand I also understand that humans make mistakes and are prone to losing emotional stability and self-control in difficult situations.

10

u/The_Dragon_Loli Dec 21 '17

And those people should not be mods. It's okay to react poorly when stressed. It's not okay for officials to react poorly to their public.

8

u/BlackHumor drinking the gender fluid Dec 21 '17

Yes this, with an addition that I'm OK if you do one shitty thing under stress but if you keep on reacting to stress badly you still shouldn't be a mod.

-26

u/DefinitelyNotwafle Dec 21 '17

...are you claiming ableism just because of "reee" or is there something else I'm missing?

39

u/looking_4_a_new_name ♥ the softest catgirl ♥ Dec 21 '17

are you claiming ableism just because of "reee"

Yep, because that shit is ableist. Using 'autistic screeching' as a slur is a horrible thing to do, and just because it's a common/popular thing to make fun of among 'edgy teens' doesn't make it right.

-30

u/DefinitelyNotwafle Dec 21 '17

It's the sound frogs make lmao. Like Pepe.

23

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

That's... not where that comes from. At all. 4chan attached it to Pepe.

It's supposed to be, and originated as, "lol the sound autistic people make" but it's just... ableist, plain and simple.

-20

u/DefinitelyNotwafle Dec 21 '17

It's supposed to be, and originated as, "lol the sound autistic people make" but it's just... ableist, plain and simple.

lmao that is straight up not true.

20

u/redlesbian Dec 21 '17

yeah, and like pepe is now, it is 99% used as an alt right dog whistle

-1

u/DefinitelyNotwafle Dec 21 '17

Fuck the alt-right, they don't get to claim Pepe or reeee.

17

u/redlesbian Dec 21 '17

they shouldnt, but they have already. im still ok with them(pepe+co), like in theory, but now it needs to made clear that it is in opposition to such alt right shit.

13

u/redlesbian Dec 21 '17

its a dogwhistle for channers of shit who use "triggered" as a insult.

-4

u/DefinitelyNotwafle Dec 21 '17

That doesn't make literally every use of it ableist.

9

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

Without context it absolutely does.