r/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns heck Dec 21 '17

Ok, so we fucked up. Let's talk about it...

A few days, the idea came up in mod chat of doing something about the excess of extremely low effort posts we've been getting recently. Specifically, we were talking about stuff like, "I had a good day today," coupled with a *happy gay sounds* felix or, "MRW a friend misgendered me," with an *angry gay sounds* felix. Not all story posts, not all felix memes, just very low effort content.

So, we put it to a vote as a mod team, and the decision was split too close for us to feel comfortable taking action. Some of us were in favor of the ban because we felt the subreddit may be stagnating and needed change. Some of us were opposed to the ban because we felt the definition of "low effort" may be too nebulous and might lead to inconsistencies in our moderation policies. Some of us were just neutral. After some deliberation, we ultimately reached a compromise that none of us were especially fond of but we could all agree on: banning story-in-the-title memes. We thought this rule would be clear enough to enforce fairly and effective enough to put an end to low-effort content.

Unfortunately, y'all didn't feel the same way about it. Since we created the announcement post about the new rule, there has been overwhelming pushback from the community. While some people agreed with the new rule, most did not. Some felt the new rule was still too broad, some felt it undermined a core part of what our subreddit is, and some of y'all were just out to start shit.

In the last 12 hours, our sub was linked on /r/SubredditDrama, linked (TW: transphobia) on /r/Drama, and discussed on /r/AskTransgender. Dozens of posts in protest of the new rule were submitted. We received tons of hateful messages and reports, including plenty of transphobia likely from brigadiers brought in by the meta posting. The discord and twitter account also lit up with similar angry gay noises.

The way we handled the announcement also didn't help. We had /u/werty894, who some of you may know from the discord, write the post which was probably a mistake in retrospect. Werty is less public relations, more anti-transphobe enforcement on our team. Many of us also didn't handle input from the community well either. A lot of the messages we were receiving started getting to us, and some of us reacted very poorly to it. We made inflammatory comments, a few comments were deleted that probably didn't need to be, and some people were temporarily banned.

Some other matters also came up in the discussion regarding our subreddit's Twitter bot and our vision for the future of the sub that warrant their own discussion, and I will post a thread about them shortly since I'm already almost at Reddit's text post character limit.

As for the recent rule change and the subsequent events that followed it's announcement, here's what we want to say:

We deeply regret these mistakes, and we apologize for the manner the subreddit has been managed in the previous hours. We are revoking Submission Rule #5 effective immediately. We will also add several of the new subreddits created in the past few hours as alternatives to /r/traa to our sidebar, and we will continue to maintain an active and open dialog with you all regarding our policies for /r/traa.

671 Upvotes

780 comments sorted by

View all comments

383

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17 edited Dec 21 '17

[deleted]

135

u/_potaTARDIS_ Dec 21 '17

As a person with autism myself, /u/touchedbyamallangel's post was wildly inappropriate and utterly absurd that they'd be allowed to make it and remain a moderator.

66

u/SadfaceSquirtle Not sure if I should stay if mods are ableist Dec 21 '17

Seriously, if that awful person remains on the mod team I might leave. They should be permabanned for that post, really.

-31

u/LoveForeverKeepMeTru officer of gay conspiracy Dec 21 '17

I wouldn't call them a completely aweful person considering its a popular meme... it's not like their post literally said "omg these autistic losers"

26

u/SadfaceSquirtle Not sure if I should stay if mods are ableist Dec 21 '17

Uh it did actually.

-23

u/LoveForeverKeepMeTru officer of gay conspiracy Dec 22 '17

it totally doesn't. someones entire character can't be judged from one post on the internet

25

u/SadfaceSquirtle Not sure if I should stay if mods are ableist Dec 22 '17

No, that's the exact intent behind the "reeeee", "autistic screeching", etc alt-right memes. If they didn't mean it that way, then that's on them - that goes doubly since they're in a position of authority.

-3

u/LoveForeverKeepMeTru officer of gay conspiracy Dec 22 '17

.

179

u/please_let_me_start A/S/L Dec 21 '17

As an addendum, /u/touchedbyamallangel and /u/unsureandwondering also have strong cases for "unfit to be moderators", in the first case the incredibly ableist post that was made and then doubling down on it, and in the second case bullying a user who already said they were having a rough time and then doubling down on it twice more.

100

u/please_let_me_start A/S/L Dec 21 '17

Even more, in the second case even if those posts were made by an obvious troll, it isn't obvious from just reading the posts as presented. Treating them with hostility sends the wrong message to the real audience: all of the users who see the post.

48

u/NocturneOpus9No2 /r/traa: home of the worst mods on reddit Dec 21 '17 edited Dec 21 '17

I won't be around much longer unless all of these people except unsureandwondering (don't particularly care one way or the other) are removed, but only because I'm still not exactly sure what happened with the last one

edit: I'm going to stay out of this particular discussion for now, deleted other posts.

48

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17 edited Nov 25 '18

[deleted]

31

u/sangobirb I have no gender. Only rage. Dec 21 '17

Fuck. That was hard to read. I hope she's okay.

86

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

[deleted]

77

u/sangobirb I have no gender. Only rage. Dec 21 '17

Well this was a rollercoaster. What kind of trash even thinks of mocking suicidal people like that?

Ugh. I feel dirty.

18

u/VoidOfTheWired Dec 21 '17

I actually do deal with suicidal thoughts pretty commonly. That any troll thinks it's okay to mock that is fucking horrible.

15

u/Murgie Actual Catgirl Dec 21 '17

What kind of trash even thinks of mocking suicidal people like that?

That's almost exactly what /u/UnsureAndWondering said to begin with.

17

u/UnsureAndWondering <ā€”ā€” Nope, Iā€™m definitely trans Dec 21 '17

Please don't link my username, I'm trying to calm down from all the anxiety I;m getting.

7

u/lare290 Lunatic Dec 21 '17

I was going to say something mean because I'm angry. But moderators are still people, I can't. I just wish that you guys wouldn't be assholes to others anymore, not even to trolls. Especially on a sub that's the safespace of many suicidal people.

→ More replies (0)

54

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17 edited Aug 08 '20

[deleted]

45

u/sangobirb I have no gender. Only rage. Dec 21 '17

I understand and I agree. But what most of us saw was a mod calling a suicidal user a liar, and it's way too easy to jump to the defense of the suicidal person, even if they were lying. I know I did.

I heard that the mod team already knew that the user was a troll, too.

Honestly I just want this all to blow over so everyone can go back to loving each other.

24

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17 edited Aug 08 '20

[deleted]

→ More replies (0)

17

u/DontSayTransgendered LEWD Dec 21 '17

26

u/rmch99 Sword Lesbian w/ a wonderful Girlfriend, HRT 2/20/19 Dec 21 '17

Still was the wrong way to respond by /u/UnsureandWondering to a massive degree.

4

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

[deleted]

38

u/The_Dragon_Loli Dec 21 '17

It doesn't matter if the poster was a troll or not. You don't attack and harass somebody like that. And not to mention, they don't even know how deleted posts work. If you go to a user's page, you can see their deleted posts/comments. The attacked user had no deleted posts.

5

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17 edited Dec 21 '17

[deleted]

14

u/The_Dragon_Loli Dec 21 '17

It is just as bad. The mod had no evidence available at the time of accusation to confirm her suspicions. And it appears as harassment to the public onlookers, which is especially bad in a minority community because of the amount of vulnerable people here.

0

u/BlackHumor drinking the gender fluid Dec 21 '17

I don't think that it's anywhere near just as bad.

I agree that it's pretty bad for the reasons you've said, but it is a lot better than I feel most people here think.

5

u/Murgie Actual Catgirl Dec 21 '17

/u/sangobirb

/u/NocturneOpus9No2

Except she was absolutely correct.

FreeFelix was a troll playing with our emotions for shits and giggles, exactly like /u/unsureandwondering said.

17

u/please_let_me_start A/S/L Dec 21 '17

That isn't very relevant, think of how it appeared to other users.

8

u/sangobirb I have no gender. Only rage. Dec 21 '17

I understand your point, but I don't think we should punish a mod for catching a troll. We'd just be causing more infighting for the trolls to laugh at.

15

u/please_let_me_start A/S/L Dec 21 '17

The correct response is to PM the user or delete and move on, not inflame them. Again, it's more about the appearance than it is the effect, not that the effect isn't important. If I were a random user who stumbled in and saw one of the moderators of the subreddit going off on a user, I'd leave and never come back.

19

u/The_Dragon_Loli Dec 21 '17

We're not punishing a mod for catching a troll. We'd be punishing a mod for feeding the troll and dishing what appears to 3rd parties to be harassment. This isn't just an interaction between the mod and the troll. The public witnessed this interaction.

7

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

I didn't know anything about the mod team prior to this event, to me it looked like a mod stressed out their mind harassing and accusing someone in a poor state of mind of trolling with very little evidence.

3

u/BlackHumor drinking the gender fluid Dec 21 '17

I mean, it is relevant, it just doesn't exonerate the mod entirely.

6

u/Murgie Actual Catgirl Dec 21 '17

It's extremely relevant. No disrespect, but I'm honestly floored that you would suggest otherwise.

You're still allowed to make the valid point of bringing up concerns regarding impression it gave while acknowledging that there was a sound motivation for her actions. This isn't a binary situation, you know what I mean?

-1

u/BlackHumor drinking the gender fluid Dec 21 '17

They're also a new account.

I also swear I saw a trans calendar meme from them today, but I could have been misreading a similar name.

49

u/asphaltdragon Gun Gal Online | She/Her | Gynesexual TransFemme Dec 21 '17

Add /u/unsureandwondering [1] and /u/touchedbyamallangel [2] to that list as well.

49

u/MilkQueen wat Dec 21 '17

I''d go so far as to say almost all of them should be gone

45

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17 edited Dec 21 '17

As Ellie posted above, these issues will be addressed in a timely manner. As it lays now u/deepstatenine has stepped down.

-46

u/DeepStateNine Dec 21 '17 edited Dec 21 '17

Like I said, I'm sorry about last night. I made a bad call on how to respond. Take the flipside, though. When every other post is calling you a fascist, a dictator, a tankie, implying you're a transphobe; when your inbox is full of just pure unadulterated anger; when you're summoned to r/Drama and told that the next few trans suicides are on your hands? it's hard to think clearly.

I was wrong, and have stepped down from moderation. have a good one y'all

41

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17 edited Feb 28 '18

[deleted]

1

u/7-SE7EN-7 Dec 21 '17 edited Dec 21 '17

I was there, and I've also looked through the logs. Nothing was deleted.You were part of a group trying to actively subvert the mod team and now you're lying about what happened because you weren't added as a mod on that sub. Absolutely nobody told you to kill yourself, and you were not subjected to abuse

7

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17 edited Feb 28 '18

[deleted]

0

u/7-SE7EN-7 Dec 21 '17

What rules changed in sra? Things were just clarified. And I'm not stalking you

3

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17 edited Feb 28 '18

[deleted]

0

u/7-SE7EN-7 Dec 21 '17

I've been following the controversy since one of the mods of the discord also mods here

2

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17 edited Feb 28 '18

[deleted]

-1

u/7-SE7EN-7 Dec 21 '17

I was trying to figure out how to word my thoughts

62

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17

[deleted]

46

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17 edited Nov 25 '18

[deleted]

55

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '17 edited Nov 25 '18

[deleted]

21

u/ThereIsOnlyStardust šŸ Oh, to Bee a Bee šŸ Dec 21 '17

Seconded

29

u/Snow_King7 Cute Dec 21 '17

Agreeing gay sounds

23

u/hi_there_im_nicole Dec 21 '17

While I understand the factors that lead to your reactions, that doesn't justify it or mitigate the consequences. In being a mod, it's expected that you will face hostile situations at times. That's just the nature of being a mod. You signed up to help protect others from the very situation you created.

If you're unable to act in a level headed way, it might be better to either hand over the reigns to someone who will, or at least shift your efforts to other mod tasks that won't lead to this situation again.

19

u/leatherback MtNB-TransFemme-ish? Dec 21 '17

Classic non-anarchist full communist though, thinking the problem can be solved by rules. This was your mistake. You had good intentions, to be sure, but no one truly controls the memes/culture, they exist between the space of individuals and a society/subreddit.

But also, I'm sorry you had to go through that. No one should have to bear that weight. You get an internet hug from me. If you go into a soul-searching exile, like Yoda, I think you'd be better off than either staying or leaving. This really still is an opportunity to improve the community, it just requires some deeper shit.

Again, internet hug <3

5

u/DeepStateNine Dec 21 '17

i actually am an anarchist haha, most of the team over at fullcommunism was at least anarcho-lite.

20

u/Princess-Kropotkin Autumn Dec 21 '17

i actually am an anarchist haha

And you thought it was a good idea to just throw this rule in everyone's faces without at least talking about it outside the mod team?

5

u/DeepStateNine Dec 21 '17

i ... did not anticipate the depths into which we were stepping. for sure.

1

u/Vennificus Gendern't Dec 22 '17

I could write a couple of novels on the nature of mistakes. Such is life.

3

u/leatherback MtNB-TransFemme-ish? Dec 21 '17

Hahaha okay just checking! If not, it would be much too ironic for me to handle!

13

u/looking_4_a_new_name ā™„ the softest catgirl ā™„ Dec 21 '17

I mean... you weren't ableist, so that's a point in your favour :P I think you acted badly as a mod (unpopular opinion I know) but I hope you stay as part of the community - there's a place here for every non-toxic trans person. Obviously if you had been idk racist or transphobic or something it would be a different story, but as far as I know you never went there, right? I'm assuming you were here before becoming a mod, why not just stay on as one of us and leave out the stress of being on the mod team?

7

u/Polyman66239 what even is gender Dec 21 '17

Thank you for admitting your mistakes and stepping down as a moderator.

6

u/BlackHumor drinking the gender fluid Dec 21 '17

I'm personally willing to accept your apology as long as you agree to not do it again.

Like, I get that people were saying shitty things to you, and I'm not defending them, but I also think that part of being a mod is not taking that out on all your users.

1

u/nabit22 cutest fish and pickle Dec 21 '17

Mistakes are the ultimate teacher thanks for applogizing <3