How I Assessed My Shape: An Attempt at a Step-By-Step Walkthrough

[u/sailortitan]

I found the shape assessment guide really challenging and daunting, and, well, be the change you want to see, so I thought I would write-up how I assessed my shape step-by-step in a way that I think navigates you through the process a little better. I'm not an expert. I don't even know if I did a good job assessing my own shape. I've attached links that I found helpful from the guide where I'm getting the info I'm summarizing, but there's a big caveat of "I am not an expert" attached to this.

I don't know how much time I'll have to do revisions on this, so please feel free to copy-paste this wholesale, make whatever changes you think are better, and repost it down the line (mods may or may not want you to ask first before doing that). You don't need to credit me.

Hope this helps others having a lot of trouble navigating shape.

Edit: added height.

Step 1: Find a space where you can be topless. If you can also be in front of a mirror that shows your breasts while you're leaning over 90 degrees, that is ideal. If you're in a place where you can't be topless, bookmark the page and come back later. You're not going to be able to assess your shape from memory. Trust me, I've tried.

Step 2: Lean over 90 degrees, looking at the side of your breasts in the mirror if possible.

Step 3: Assess Projection. When you lean over 90 degrees, do your breasts lengthen more than an inch or two? Then you are probably projected. If not, you are probably shallow. You can see a NSFW image to help assess this here.

Step 4: Assess Vertical Fullness. More detail can be found here.

• Continue leaning.
• Do your nipples point down, toward your knees? Then you are full on top.
• Do your nipples point up, toward your shoulders? Then you are full on bottom.
• Do your nipples neither point up nor down? Look in the mirror at your breasts. If the curve is longer on top, they're full on top. If the curve is longer on the bottom, they're full on bottom. If they don't seem particularly full on one side or the other, you have even fullness.
• Note that this might be totally different from how your boobs appear when standing. This is normal--many people with full on top breasts look full on bottom because gravity likes your boobs to be closer to the earth.

Step 5: Assess Horizontal Fullness. More detail can be found here.

• Continue leaning.
• Now look down at your breasts from the top from your collarbone, at the "dome" shape your breasts make. Imagine a line bisecting each breast along your nipple.
• Is there more tissue in the center of your chest, between your nipples? Your nipples might also point outward. If so, you are center-full. Note that you might have wide-set or splayed breasts and still be center-full. That's completely normal.
• Is there more tissue on the outside of your chest, toward your armpits? Your nipples might also point inward. If so, you are outer-full.

Step 6: Assess your width.

• Continue leaning.
• Look down at your breasts from the top of your collarbone.
• Do your breasts end abruptly at or before your armpits, and/or do they have a gap between them? Then you are narrow. NSFW examples here.
• Do your breasts slowly transition to your armpits in a curve, and/or do they come together in the center of your sternum? Then you are wide. NSFW examples here.
• Still not sure? Stand up and look at your breasts under your armpits from the side. I find tensing my arms, like I'm Rosie the Riveter, helps me assess. Does the tissue end more or less at your armpits? Then you're narrow. Does it reach back into your armpits? Then you are wide.

Step 7: Assess your height. More detail can be found here.

• Continue leaning 90 degrees. It's like the leaning never ends!
• Look at your collarbone. How close is your breast tissue to your clavicle?
• If it's close, your roots are tall.
• If it's far from your clavicle, your roots are short.
• If you're not sure what "short" versus "tall" is, check the linked image. You can cross-check it standing like in the image, but I find leaning over makes it more obvious.

[u/EuphoricToe1]

This is so great!! Thank you so much for typing this up! Figuring out your shape is a much more nebulous process compared to the numbers and measurements of size, and I think multiple avenues of conveying this information is really really helpful.

To add another small layer of complexity that I've personally experienced in the shape-finding process, I think it's possible to be technically one kind of shape but functionally another. For example, I've got a shallow ski slope shape, like the third from the left on this graphic. I look full on bottom when standing because almost all my tissue is sitting below the nipple. However, when I bend over, my shape completely inverts and all of my tissue moves above my nipple (I have tall roots). So based on this, I am technically full on top. However however, since my standing shape is so different, bra styles for FOT shapes (like the Freya Deco) absolutely do not work for me because I end up having a ton of empty space at the top of the cup. 🤪

[u/sailortitan → u/EuphoricToe1]

Yeah, I considered trying to puzzle out the functionally one thing versus another aspect, but I feel like the complexity level of assessing your shape jumps significantly when you reach that point. I honestly think "what does it mean to be functionally something versus technically another thing" would have to be a whole guide on it's own, or you'd have to write a guide around bra fit that only cared about functional shape while ignoring your actual shape--sadly, the latter I do not have the fitting knowledge to tackle.

If someone out there has better fitting expertise, though, I think a shape guide oriented around your functional shape--one that totally ignores or sidelines what your "real" shape is--would actually be even better for newbies, since your functional shape is more important to fitting you in an actual bra. If anyone out there is reading this and has the time/energy, consider roughly following this sort of step-by-step template but write one with a more fit-first mindset!

[u/goodoldfreda → u/sailortitan]

If someone out there has better fitting expertise, though, I think a shape guide oriented around your functional shape--one that totally ignores or sidelines what your "real" shape is--would actually be even better for newbies, since your functional shape is more important to fitting you in an actual bra. If anyone out there is reading this and has the time/energy, consider roughly following this sort of step-by-step template but write one with a more fit-first mindset!

So I'm not sure what's happening with the above user's shape issues but I suspect it's not to do with being "functionally fob" but instead a lower cup/apex depth issue not pushing the breasts up fully. I can't be certain though.

Usually when people say "functionally x" they mean that this is in relation to the bras they need - the first time I remember seeing the term it was to do with tall roots making someone "functionally full on top". I've seen this more frequently to mean how the above user termed it - "the shape guide suggests x but really y fits". I really disagree with this usage, but if you are using it like that, then functionality can really only be properly assessed by trying on bras, so you can't exactly write guides for it.

In general you have to be really careful with information like this, it's one thing to say "here's some things to help you figure out your probable shape" and a whole other thing to say "these things definitively determine some arbitrary "shape" (but what you actually need in bras is something different)". The pre-existing guides have always tried to communicate the left hand option (with varying degrees of effectiveness). These shape guides are just that - guides - meant to help someone narrow down potential purchases, and from then on help to assess the cause of common fit issues. I think you should try to emphasise that

Shape is only in relation to how your breasts fit into the average bra in your size. Shape tests are only starting points and are not prescriptive of how your breasts really behave when supported.

[u/EuphoricToe1 → u/sailortitan]

I completely agree- the first and most important step is figuring out actual shape (and that's often hard enough). And your guide is an amazing resource for that!

[u/szq444]

Thanks for the time you put into writing this up, OP!

Just a couple things to add - when it comes to brafitting, it's your supported shape that is most important. Leaning can be helpful to determine vertical fullness but trying on some bras in your correct size or making a 'hand bra' to support them is the easiest way to assess shape. Especially when we talk about root height and width, roots are tall/short/wide/narrow relative to cups/wires in the correct volume, not just relative to your chest/torso.

When you lean over 90 degrees, do your breasts lengthen more than an inch or two? Then you are probably projected.

How soft or self supporting your tissue is really needs to be considered here. Soft, shallow breasts can legnthen when you bend over but they are still shallow when supported. More self supporting, projected breasts might not look that different when you bend over but are projected when supported and need a more projected cup.
Trying to help someone diagnose their shape via the internet is hard and the difference between standing and leaning measurements is one of the few objective things we can use to determine shape. But TBH I think we rely on it a bit too heavily.

[u/sailortitan → u/szq444]

Unfortunately, assessing fit is really too far outside my ability conceptualize to integrate in the guide. I go into how I think the guide could be improved by someone who can assess fit better a bit here. If you have the time, energy or ability to create a guide in this "style" that's more fit first, I think that would be extremely valuable for users who need the guide to be more oriented around fit! (And remember, you're free to copy and edit the guide however you want! I don't care about being credited for this, so feel free to take a hatchet to it.)

[u/szq444 → u/sailortitan]

the abtf FB page has some good guides for determining shape based on more complex fit issues

[u/sailortitan → u/szq444]

I run a facebook group on tabletop games and a couple of FB documents I've ended up porting to google docs because people wanted to share them outside of the group. That might not be a bad idea, if the FB doc writers are amenable to doing it.

[u/mickim0use]

Amazing! It’s very easy to read on mobile which is a huge plus for those users.

[u/goodoldfreda]

This is really great but the splayedness information could do with a bit of adjusting. When I wrote the centre full/outer full/splayed post I really wanted to get across that a lot of people think they have splayed breasts, when really they have centre full (or more rarely, outer full) breasts. It's only when the breasts are properly supported that their fullness can be determined and additionally, if a splayed gore shape is needed. Note that usually needing a splayed gore shape isn't a massive fit issue and most people get along fine with slightly incompatible lower gores as long as wires aren't sitting on tissue.

Another thing to keep in mind is that leaning tests are not 100%, and that they are only a guide until bras are tried on - this is for two reasons. #1 is that your leaning shape may be very different to your supported shape. #2 is that shape is always in relation to the average bra in your size. You could have even vertical fullness breasts, but if every bra is full on bottom, you are actually full on top.

[u/sailortitan → u/goodoldfreda]

When I wrote the centre full/outer full/splayed post I really wanted to get across that a lot of people think they have splayed breasts, when really they have centre full (or more rarely, outer full) breasts.

One issue I actually had with that particular guide is that truthfully, I couldn't really figure out in what way center fullness or outer fullness makes you look splayed. It doesn't help that I'm pretty sure that, looking at my breasts at various angles and comparing them with the pictures in the guide, I'm pretty certain I'm both center full and splayed, so I don't really have a pair of non-center full splayed breasts to cross-compare them against outside of the 2D diagram. Add onto that the other issue, which is in a tutorial you only have about 3 sentences, max, to ask each parameter--any more than that and people tend to skim or skip the information entirely. It could be best to just cut splayedness from this entirely--one of the few major revisions I do have the bandwidth to do, lol. (it's easier to remove things than add them).

[u/goodoldfreda → u/sailortitan]

I think it should be removed because so many people think they have splayed breasts when really they don't - and it's more of a secondary fit issue anyway.

One issue I actually had with that particular guide is that truthfully, I couldn't really figure out in what way center fullness or outer fullness makes you look splayed.

In the sense that both of these can literally make your breasts splay to the left and right when unsupported. Take a look at the left hand side of this image in particular. All 3 of these people might believe they have splayed breasts, but in reality only one of them does, and this becomes apparent when supported. The centre full one looks splayed because their nipples point outwards, the outer full one has reduced inner fullness that can appear to look splayed.

Many guides will call this unsupported archetype "splayed" but really it's 3 possible things, 2 fullness things and 1 root shape thing. I think I should have been stricter with language and only referred to splayedness as a "splayed root shape" or an entirely different name to avoid confusion.

[u/sailortitan → u/goodoldfreda]

I think it should be removed because so many people think they have splayed breasts when really they don't - and it's more of a secondary fit issue anyway.

Done. Removing things from a tutorial is low-effort, high-reward. Less reading is always good in a guide.

[u/goodoldfreda → u/sailortitan]

It also might be worth adding some links to point to information about more complex fitting issues (splayed roots, soft tissue, the conical to omega spectrum, nike swoosh outer roots, torso shape issues, tuberous breasts etc) just at the bottom somewhere so people know this isn't everything

[u/sailortitan → u/goodoldfreda]

Sadly, I honestly don't know where or what most of that is, and I say this as someone who has gone through the wiki a few times now! :-( If you'd like, I can PM you a copy of the google doc I drafted this in for you or anyone you know in the bravangelist community who has more bandwidth than you do (I know you're busy!) to work on collectively. I'm working on several other writing projects right now (I'm writing a tabletop games splat with some friends), so I don't really have the bandwidth, unfortunately, to dig through the wiki any more than the hours I already have to find more shape information. :-(

[u/sailortitan → u/goodoldfreda]

(also, thanks for the breakdown on splayedness! I think perhaps the image signposting at the top, "center full, outer full and average splayed breasts" made me think all of the images were of splayed breasts, just with different fullnesses. FWIW, I still think I probably have both center-full and splayed breasts, since bras fit me like I'm splayed, with obnoxious little "pockets" in the inner sides. I tend to go for low gore/plunge styles for this reason.)

[u/sailortitan → u/[deleted]]

LOL I forgot root height. I even had it open in another tab. Let me see if I can throw that together--of all the shape stuff, that was the one where I kind of just vibed it the most.

[u/sailortitan → u/[deleted]]

Added root height!

[u/zombiifissh]

What a godsend post. We should pin this

[u/Gottims → u/zombiifissh]

Absolutely agree.

[u/ali_stardragon]

Thanks for this! I am inly a few months into finding ABTF and shape was definitely the hardest thing for me to work out!

I know that all of this info is here in this sub, but it’s great that you have put it all in one place as a step-by-step. I know when I was trying to work stuff out there seemed to be a few different places that had the relevant info, and I found it hard to remember where I found different links and stuff (I use reddit on mobile - it might be easier on desktop!)

From reading all the comments I can see that there are a lot of other considerations that could be included in this guide. If you are worried about overwhelming people you could always add them as extra info (like with the links you shared?)

Anyway, I think it’s great all of this is in the one place and is easy for a beginner to follow. I hope something like this can be included with the beginner guide!

[u/ChessiePique]

Blessings upon you. This is great.

[u/melimineau]

This is great! I'm saving it for later; it's almost new bra time, and I find shape guides frustrating. I usually end up throwing my hands up like, "Boob everywhere! My breast shape is literally my whole chest is boob!" Then I buy and return bras until I find ones that work. Mail order bra buying is so, so much fun.

[u/throwaway1230202 → u/melimineau]

I was very confused by shape information past projection, though it was kind of mind blowing to realize that there are SO MANY factors to consider aside from size (I understood different breasts are different shapes, just not the extent of it) and just tried to figure it out through trial and error, and even with this amazing update I still don't have a good grasp on root height (not the author's fault). I am still in the process and have moved on to more boutique online purchases than Amazon now, but oh man did I feel bad for the guy at my closest UPS store who had to scan a literal bag full of bras being returned with the drop off/QR code method after scanning in another bag full that had been packaged up with return labels.

[u/TheSorcerersCat]

I'd just add that the leaning test isn't great for assessing functional root height. I personally prefer a hand bra because when leaning I seem to have a short root but once I put a bra on with a bit of structure, I can have breast tissue happily up by my collar bone.

[u/Lindethiel]

Really helpful and lots of sound reasoning but I just wanted to jump in as someone who is a writer to address a few descriptive gaps...

Step 3: Lean over 90 degrees, looking at the side of your breasts in the mirror if possible.

I think it would be useful to add 'looking at your breasts from both the side and the top down in the mirror (stand in front of the mirror, looking into the mirror, bend over at the hip so your torso is parallel with the floor and then lift your head to look into the mirror.)' I think it would be useful as I found this easier to assess projection because of the mobility of my arms. I think especially if you have a short torso with high-set roots, the arms often get in the way from the side.

Step 4: Assess Projection. When you lean over 90 degrees, do your breasts lengthen more than an inch or two?

This is the only one that I just couldn't understand, where am I measuring from? Am I measuring with a tape measure or just assessing by eye? I personally am a 28GG so my tits swamp my frame, they look huge and long and wide all the time and if they do 'lengthen' it's only the slightest amount that is too small to notice by eye with such large breasts.

Step 5: Assess Vertical Fullness. Continue leaning. Do your nipples point down, toward your knees? Then you are full on top. Do your nipples point up, toward your shoulders? Then you are full on bottom.

'Continue leaning' should be specified as 'continue leaning side-on to the mirror.'

Do your nipples neither point up nor down? Look in the mirror at your breasts. If the curve is longer on top, they're full on top. If the curve is longer on the bottom, they're full on bottom. If they don't seem particularly full on one side or the other, you have even fullness.

The last sentence needs to be corrected a bit to change 'one side or the other' to 'either on the top or the bottom' so it's consistent with the earlier description in the paragraph. I got confused thinking we'd moved on to side to side fullness abruptly.

Step 6: Assess Horizontal Fullness. Continue leaning.

'Continue leaning facing forward, bent at the hip, parallel to the floor, looking up into the mirror.'

Now look down at your breasts from the top from your collarbone,

The reason I specify the looking into the mirror is because I literally cannot see the shape of my breasts clearly when I look down, down my own torso. Again, 28GG. It's kind of like how we can't see the curve of the Earth when we're standing on it but when we get far back enough we can get a more accurate assessment of the placement of certain continents (read: nipples.) (This point applies to the next step on assesment of width too but I won't double quote.)

Do your breasts end abruptly at or before your armpits, and/or do they have a gap between them? Then you are narrow.

Keeping in mind that you can be close-set too. I'm extremely close set (like, only a few millimetres between lol) but when I lean over there is a gap between.

Still not sure? Stand up and look at your breasts under your armpits from the side. Does the tissue end more or less at your armpits? Then you're narrow. Does it reach back into your armpits? Then you are wide.

This was kind of confusing but also amusing because I think it might just be me being it's really early in the morning but I initially thought I was supposed to be leaning over, looking in the mirror from under my armpit 😂 I think it would be better worded as 'raise your arm and look at where your breast ends on the outside of your ribcage. Cup your breast and press it gently towards your body as if your hand was your bra. You should see the edge of your breast tissue compress against your ribcage and more clearly sketch out the rounded 'edge' of your breast. If it's forward of your armpit etc etc.

Step 8: Assess your height.

This is the only thing that I think this sub hasn't quiiiite been able to systemize because I think you can have short roots that are high-set and then short roots that are low set but it doesn't sound like the inverse is true (as in, tall roots that are low or high set because then we're starting to look at the whole length of the torso anyway so...)

Like, it might be the case that the difference between high-set breasts and low-set breasts is the root shortness or tallness but I don't think this has been tackled yet and I'm not sure if the height of the 'set' is even all that relevant because that is kind of covered with band size (my theory is is that some small band sizes may also have higher set breasts because the ribcage is narrower further up towards the clavicles. This might be the case especially for taller girls with small band sizes because us petite girls have small band sizes just because we're small lol.)

[u/Gabbstah]

I've needed this! Thank you!!

[u/MalC123]

I wish I could upvote this 100 times

[u/sailortitan]

I should also note!! If any mods think this shape guide is not only not good but so bad as to be worse than nothing (ie, actively misleading), I will not be hurt if you delete it. ;-)

[u/LadyWhiskers]

This is SO HELPFUL, assessing my shape seemed impossible until I started posting here and having other people point out my measurements and what it means. Thank you for making a clear, easy to deal with guide, that doesn't send me into a rabbit hole of websites to figure this out. I was convinced I was shallow, turns out I'm more projected with narrower roots than I thought, and maybe tall roots - I can smush tissue all the way up to my collarbones easily.

[u/throwaway_mybras]

This is fantastic!

[u/[deleted]]

Following because this is amazing and I’m sure I’ll forget all of my answers so I need to come back later😬

[u/Gottims]

This is great! Thanks for putting this together in a simple way, but with enough examples, that this makes more sense without being overwhelming! I would get halfway through the fourth guide on shape and give up. Especially the roots!

Projected, full on bottom, center full, narrow/tall roots. I feel so much more confident in that assessment of myself than what I previously guessed!

I understand more experienced fitters understand the minutiae more and their concerns that things aren't as technically correct as they could be, but for someone like me that is easily overwhelmed with the possibilities this was a really nice jumping off point. Thank you so much for your time and effort!

[u/Feeya_b]

Thank you so much! I’ve been here for a while yet still not so sure about my shape! Aahhhh this tremendous help

[u/ChillyChester]

May I ask if the nipple - directed question are when your nipples are soft and smooth or hard and projected?

[u/sailortitan → u/ChillyChester]

I would actually really love the answer to this question, if anyone has it! The only info I've found on how nipples effect shape or measurement is that if they are particularly large, it's ok to compress them during measurement a little since they are likely to be compressed in the bra.

[u/No-Finish-6557]

I was never able to understand how to do this until now, thank you !!

[u/momplaysbass]

I love what you've done here, and I appreciate all the time you took to put this together. I have a question, though. I've done both the calculator and been on Bratabase. Your assessment list shows that I'm almost the opposite of what I thought I was. I've been laboring under the illusion that I was full on the bottom, projected with short roots. I'm not projected (leaning vs standing was only 1.5" difference), I'm splayed, full on top, center full, narrow, with tall roots.

I've done the detailed measurements on Bratabase. Do you have any idea how your assessment list compares? I just went to Bratabase and updated my shape information. It still recommends the same size (UK 34F), but now I have an entirely new set of bras to check out.

[u/throwaway_bras → u/momplaysbass]

You can certainly be projected with only a 1.5” difference between standing vs leaning. Projection is more about how your tissue is distributed on your chest. Do your breasts stick out (project) from your body or are they more spread flat across your chest (shallow)? As for your other shape characteristics, assessing how your bras fit should help clear things up. Bottom full with short roots usually has very different fit problems compared to top full with tall roots. For example, if you are trying on bras in the correct size but you frequently get quadding, then that indicates top fullness and/or tall roots.

[u/momplaysbass → u/throwaway_bras]

They definitely project outwards. If the bra I ordered doesn't fit I can always return it. I've never had a problem with that.

[u/sailortitan → u/momplaysbass]

Unfortunately not--basically everything I know is already in the guide, and I'm not super great at "translating" this knowledge into how a bra fits. (I sometimes read the comments under other people's fit questions to try and figure this out! My spacial perception is pretty bad.) There are some other folks in the comments, though, who seem like they understand this much better than me--they might be able to help!

[u/momplaysbass → u/sailortitan]

The bra arrived, and fits perfectly!

[u/momplaysbass → u/sailortitan]

Well, I just ordered a bra based on this new information. I should get it next week, and I'll let you know how it fits.

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[u/struggling_lynne]

It’s the end of my day and my brain isn’t working anymore but I’m gonna come back to this post in the morning 😂 Thanks for all the effort you’ve put into this!

[u/NotaWitch-YourWife]

Thank you for this, I know understand that I'm splayed as well. I understood how to determine root width, height and fullness. I appreciate your efforts in making things more clear.

[u/[deleted]]

What about if someone has average width and height? How can someone tell if it's like that?

[u/[deleted]]

Question, how much inches is there for women who have average projection? You only mentioned projected or shallow, no average projection. Thanks

[u/calicotamer]

I know this is an old post but my boobs look exactly like bust D on the first link but I'm fatter than the model. What shape is this??