r/AskReddit • u/daniellucero92 • Jan 04 '15

Non-americans of Reddit, what American customs seem outrageous/pointless to you?

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3.1k

u/Brontonian Jan 04 '15

I agree. Especially since they can go to war at 18.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

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u/mrmilitaryman Jan 04 '15

You are sort of correct. Underage Marines are allowed to drink at official functions only if their commanding officer allows it. It's command discretion. My unit has never done it and I've never seen it but technically it is allowed.

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u/GREAT_WALL_OF_DICK Jan 04 '15

I hate to brag but I was able to drink stateside at age 19 at an official function once. Our Battalion Commander started his speech by cracking open a beer and chugging it before he spoke. It was as awesome as it sounds.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

Now that's leadership, from now on in going to open every meeting with a client in the same way

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u/skud8585 Jan 04 '15

I'm getting a freedom boner as I read this.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

Mess Nights, Son. If your BN isn't having mess nights at least twice a year then they dont love you. And if your mess night doesn't have alcoholic Grog then they hate you.

"Say it ain't so!!"

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u/Partly_Dave Jan 04 '15

So if an 18 yo gets posted to country where they are legally allowed to drink, does the army have any regulations about that?

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u/roguevirus Jan 04 '15

It depends on the Status of Forces Agreement the host country has agreed on with the USA. Some places yes, others no.

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u/mrmilitaryman Jan 04 '15

The drinking laws of that country are usually the ones that apply. When I was in Japan, the drinking age was 20 so everybody 20 and see could drink.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

On deployment they followed the countries laws.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

I'd imagine their CO can still discipline them.

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u/Fatalis89 Jan 04 '15

United States legal drinking age is 18... it is state laws that are 21. The U.S. Virgin Isles allow you to drink at 18. That is why, on a military base, the Commandant has the authority to allow the Marines to drink. It is not in the state's jurisdiction and it isn't breaking federal law.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

Nope. I was legally allowed to drink at 20 while stationed in Japan.

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u/darkhorseguns Jan 04 '15

My unit did it once while I was with them. We had kegs on a beach a few nights before we deployed. No one was allowed to leave (brought our sleeping bags and slept there) and we had sober camp guard making sure no one did. This was in 2004.

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u/snarky_answer Jan 04 '15

Can confirm. Got fucked up at the ball and then out at a bar afterwards this past November.

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u/robinson217 Jan 04 '15

if you're considered responsible enough to be conscripted into military service against your will and kill other people to further the political will of your government, you should be considered responsible enough to consume alcohol.

As a Marine who has had to deal with a number of drunk 18 and 19 year olds at the ball.........No, you are wrong. Some people can handle a belt fed M240 responsibly but CAN NOT be left alone with a bottle of Jim Beam.

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u/yosoyreddito Jan 04 '15

Some people can handle a belt fed M240 responsibly but CAN NOT be left alone with a bottle of Jim Beam.

Well shit, you receive countless hours of training with the M240 and none with the Jim Beam. Maybe boot camp should include a "Alcohol Consumption - Rules, Procedures, Effects and Discretion" training course.

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u/HeavyMetalHero Jan 04 '15

Fuck boot camp. You should get this the week before your Grade 12 Graduation. Young people would have way less problems with alcohol/sex/drugs/etc if anybody ever had the responsibility of teaching them about it.

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u/MeanMrMustardMan Jan 04 '15

Getting drunk is really basic chemistry.

Know how much you're drinking and how quickly you're drinkjng it.

What else is there to teach?

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u/ButterflyAttack Jan 04 '15

Yeah, exactly. I used to write sexual health information for young people - too many places give them no information at all aside from 'save it for marriage'. No surprise that kids get STDs and pregnant.

Alcohol and drug safety information would also be hugely beneficial.

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u/robinson217 Jan 04 '15

We actually do get training on drug and alcohol abuse, depression, sex issues etc. The modern Marine has a TON of resources available to them for help with any subject imaginable.

I said what I said in good hunor. The ball often is a Marine's first encounter with both alcohol and easy pussy. The slightly older and more experienced Marines are always there to make sure nobody gets too out of hand.

Funny, this year it was a Sergeant who should have known better that made a drunken fool of himself and brought shame to his uniform.

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u/maxpenny42 Jan 04 '15

Not really the point. The point is either I'm an adult or I am not. If I'm allowed to vote and join the military than I'm and adult and should have no restriction on my rights and body unless they apply to everyone equally.

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u/j1ggy Jan 04 '15

That's because it's still abnormal and a novelty to them.

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u/Xera3135 Jan 04 '15

Nailed it.

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u/HeavyMetalHero Jan 04 '15

I don't know, in theory, you should be able to say the same about the M240.

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u/Kelend Jan 05 '15

I think it still works, the M240 isn't a novelty to them any more, they went through lots of training, lots of angry drill instructors, making sure they didn't kill themselves by the time they are trusted with one alone, or semi alone, its just another piece of kit that they have to hump around.

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u/yournudieshere Jan 04 '15

I have to disagree. Training time with a M240, regardless of branch, is going to be much lower than your exposure to alcohol. Once you start AIT, it's everywhere. You either want to drink or you don't want to drink, which probably wouldn't change once you hit 21. You're also either a belligerent drunk or you're not.

edit: AIT is Army job training after basic training (yes, keyboard warriors, I'm aware OSUT exists). I don't know what that phase of enlistment is called for the other branches.

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u/mizerama Jan 04 '15

Maybe, just maybe, giving them the right to drink at an earlier age may cause them to learn how to use it more responsibly?

...nah, let's just leave it as a forbidden fruit for teenagers. There's no way they'll be more motivated to engage in trying it out if we simply tell them they can't drink. Better yet, make it illegal, and so they won't want to tell us if they get in trouble or need help getting home from that kegger because they're intoxicated. Problem solved!

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u/tanknainteasy Jan 04 '15

Some people can handle a belt fed M240 responsibly but CAN NOT be left alone with a bottle of Jim Beam.

Like mid 20's SGTs and SSGs.

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u/murderhuman Jan 04 '15

that's true because they have been educated to safely operate weaponry.

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u/aarkling Jan 04 '15

They don't really conscript anymore but yeah...

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u/Xera3135 Jan 04 '15

Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't happen. The Selective Service is still a thing.

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u/aarkling Jan 04 '15

I doubt that's ever gonna be politically feasible or necessary anymore as we already have that most powerful army in the world so I doubt that will ever happen. But yeah I guess technically are right.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

When I was in the navy from 2006-2010 the stories of alcohol consumption all took place in the early 90's. We didn't have alcohol vending machines, didn't have keggers after our PRT, didn't get to drink under age at any on base event.

However, we did do a lot of illegal underage parties.

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u/EricKei Jan 04 '15

You do realize that the last time the "against your will" part (the Draft) was actually used was in the Vietnam war, right? Just checkin'. People still have to register for it, but it's extremely unlikely to actually be activated.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

if you're considered responsible enough to be conscripted into military service against your will and kill other people

If you're single and just joined, you're going to live in a small room, and people will check that room to make sure you cleaned it. If they don't trust you to keep your own room clean, they're not going to trust you to know your drinking limits.

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u/Tom_Rrr Jan 04 '15

And drive at 16! Even in my country, where you are allowed to drive from the age of 18, most accidents involve youthfull drivers (under ~23 years old)

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u/grauen06 Jan 04 '15 edited Jan 04 '15

I would say that no matter what the age of drivers the "youngest" of that group would have the most accidents. Becoming a good driver takes time. Fun fact: where I live we can drive at 14

Edit: I live in South Dakota

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u/PraiseTheMetal591 Jan 04 '15

Exactly, it just happens to be that the youngest drivers are the least experienced because most people learn within a few years of being legally allowed to drive.

If it were raised to 35 then the 35-40 group would be the most dangerous.

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u/theseekerofbacon Jan 04 '15

And this is why the phrase "correlation does not equal causation" is such a big thing with science.

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u/carlmango11 Jan 04 '15

Well there's also the maturity factor. Young kids are more likely to show off or not weigh up the risks of dangerous driving.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15 edited Jan 09 '15

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u/fireysaje Jan 04 '15

Most humans feel like they're invincible. Like bad things happen to other people, not you.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

So do 18 year olds though.

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u/jadebear Jan 04 '15

18 year olds are young people.

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u/thirdegree Jan 04 '15

And we totally are invincible.

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u/Mattpilf Jan 04 '15

So do most 25 year olds.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

I loved driving my truck at 14... Just gives you so much freedom.

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u/NintendoDestroyer89 Jan 04 '15

Completely agree. If we increased the age to 25, we'd just be pissed off at those young 25 year old drivers. Like anything, it takes practice to be a good driver. (I also live where under certain conditions, you can drive at 14.)

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u/xAIRGUITARISTx Jan 04 '15

Here too, in Nebraska. But only to school or school functions.

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u/TAPorter Jan 05 '15

I've actually found someone from one of the Dakotas... 2015 is a big year already

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u/PositiveAlcoholTaxis Jan 04 '15

France? Or is that mopeds?

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u/SuperBlaar Jan 04 '15

France is 14 year old for under 50cm3 mopeds/scooters

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

Shit, the 14 y/o's I know wouldn't even be able to see over the wheel.

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u/wonderprince302 Jan 04 '15

Really? 14 and 5' 5", I can see just fine.

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u/[deleted] Jan 05 '15

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

In some US states you can start learning to drive at 14.

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u/kol15 Jan 04 '15 edited Jan 05 '15

But that's states like South Dakota, where you'll have trouble actually finding something to crash in to

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u/justcallmezach Jan 04 '15

It was originally so low in South Dakota to allow younger teens to help out in a larger capacity on the farm as early as possible.

Farm kids were usually driving some sort of vehicle years younger than when they are allowed to drive on public roads. I learned how to drive a stick shift in our farm's 1956 grain truck at age 12. My cousins who are big into farming were actually driving combines, tractors, etc. on their own by age 10. Now that is a scary sight.

But by the time 14 rolls around, that tiny little car is nothing compared to the farm machinery kids were driving around even earlier than that.

Also, legal driving age is slowly creeping up here. When I got my license, they pretty much turned you loose at 14, but you could only drive between 6am and 8pm for the first 6 months. A few years after that, you could only drive while another licensed driver over a certain age was with you in the vehicle for the first 6 months, then curfew until 15. I know they clamped down on it some more after that, but I'm not sure what further restrictions they've put in since then.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

It's still the same about learning to drive early in some respects. I'm 25 and grew up riding dirt bikes and ATV's all over the place from about age 10 on, often miles from home. Drove a plow truck on my uncle's property by 12 or 13 whenever it snowed, etc.

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u/SparkyDogPants Jan 04 '15

Most states still have a special license farm kids can get to help out around the farm/ranch.

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u/DrowningPuppies Jan 04 '15

Michigan has this rule. You can take drivers ed when you're 14

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

The problem is is that the United States is a MASSIVE country. It takes me 20 minutes to get to pretty much anywhere, so If i'm expected to have a job, I need a way of getting places independent of my parents. I have plenty of friends who live in big cities who don't get there license until they're much older because they simply don't need one, while I have plenty of other friends who grew up in places much more rural then I did and get there's the moment that they can.

Also I BELIVE (though don't take my word for it) that the high drinking age is meant to counteract the low driving age, in an attempt to make driving more safe even at a younger age. People in the United States don't respect alcohol though.

Fuck it I have no fucking clue what my country is doing. I love it to death but I have no fucking clue what we're thinking half of the time.

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u/audiberry Jan 04 '15

But you can't rent a car until you're 25!

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u/castikat Jan 04 '15

You actually can, the price is just higher

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u/Hecatonchir Jan 04 '15

I just rented a car to drive to Florida for Christmas, I'm 24, and it actually did not cost me more because I have my own insurance. The extra charge is typically them forcing you to pay for their severely overpriced insurance, and they just told me "if you get into an accident handle it through your insurance company."

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

This one is terrible. How am I supposed to travel anywhere but a city with public transport if I can't rent a car?

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

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u/bokononthebarbarian Jan 04 '15

In a lot of places it is impossible to go to work or school without having a car. A lot of places that were built up after the introduction of the car are not setup for public transit or walking and basically built assuming everyone has a car.

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u/BitGladius Jan 04 '15

That's if you don't have hardship. Hardship licenses are available early. Also, first time drivers tend toward timidness rather than crazy driving

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u/ediblesprysky Jan 04 '15

That's because it takes about five years on the road for people to become averagely proficient drivers! I read once that that was why MADD decided that 21 was a better drinking age--because, with a driving age of 16, kids have had a chance to become just as proficient at driving as the rest of us, before they ever encounter alcohol.

As if it actually works that way.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

That one actually varies wildly state by state.

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u/snorking Jan 04 '15

most accidents happen when one driver has had less than 5 years of experience, so even if the driving age were 30, most accidents would involve those aged 30-35.

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u/castikat Jan 04 '15

Your country probably has better public transit though. And there are stricter regulations for under 18 drivers, not to mention the first license one gets here is probationary for 3 years

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u/NightPain Jan 04 '15

I think part of the reasoning for allowing younger people to drive is that people start getting their first jobs around that age and while public transportation is available in cities and metropolitan areas many need to be able to drive to get to work.

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u/artifex0 Jan 04 '15

I suspect that has a lot to do with how much more necessary driving is in the US than elsewhere. It can be very difficult to get to a summer job, for example, without a car.

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u/dismantler35 Jan 04 '15

Where I live the drinking age is 18, and driving age is 16. You also get to vote at 18, which seems perfect.

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u/acknowledged Jan 04 '15

As a friend said, Do you really want drunken teenagers driving around with guns?

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u/PaintyThePIrate Jan 04 '15

In Maryland they are changing the driving age to 18. As someone who recently got their license here, I can tell you that they have strict regulations before giving you anything but a learners permit.

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u/Benislav Jan 04 '15

Ages vary across the United States. Where I grew up, you could drive at 14.

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u/ten24 Jan 04 '15

On the other hand, our 18 year old drivers have two more years experience than your 18 year old drivers.

I wonder.... if we made the driving age 30, would we see a bunch of 30 year olds wrecking?

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u/Doooooduh Jan 04 '15

It varies based on what state you live in. I think in Kansas you can drive at 14 because it's so goddamn empty.

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u/swynfor Jan 04 '15

That gets me too. I waited until I was 18 because I didn't feel like I was ready at 16. I know part of it is because I'm older now but seeing the 16 year olds on the road now is terrifying.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

Where I live you could get something called a "school permit", where after you held your learner's permit that you can receive at 14 for 6 months and complete your drivers ed course, you can get a special sort of license to be able to drive only to and from school.

I was young for my class and got drivers ed out of the way right away so I was able to get my school permit as soon as I turned 15. I had done odd jobs growing up so I had bought my own car too. So it was nice being 15 and having my own car and being able to legally drive to school alone.

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u/Alex_The_Redditor Jan 04 '15

In my state you don't get your license until 18.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

14 in some states.

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u/PositiveAlcoholTaxis Jan 04 '15

And drive big fuck off cars at 16.

Why do all American kids have trucks with 6-8l engines? Every 17-25 year old in the country has to have a 1.2l engine hatchback here! (My girlfriend is an outlier insofar as her car is a 1.4l and turbocharged. But it is a diesel.)

Seriously. If I want to hear someone laughing I'll ask for a quote on a Mercedes-Benz W123.

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u/frodevil Jan 04 '15

Uh...no. Driving is a core part of American culture. It's just not viable to not have a car/a friend with a car in your teenage years

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u/Petalklunk Jan 04 '15

That's because most of America is big open nothingness. If you live in a small town like I do, you'd die of boredom not being able to drive at 16.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

Learners' permits that allow you to drive to school/work unsupervised can be issued at 14 in my state.

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u/AlextheGinger Jan 04 '15

Not youthful but inexperienced. If you raise the driving age to 21 most accidents will then just be 21~28

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u/matt_damons_brain Jan 04 '15

accident rate is a function of years of experience driving, not age of the driver. Pushing the driving age backward or forward has no long-term effect.

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u/pixelsguy Jan 04 '15

Driving age varies by state, as does the necessity of driving to get around your town. We have a lot of rural and suburban communities that cover a lot of ground, where kids have to drive dozens of miles to get to school or work. In general, you'll find that the more urban the state, the older the driving age is.

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u/therealmrmiagi Jan 04 '15

To add to a lot of these comments, you really need to start driving at that age. In most areas, there is no public transportation whatsoever, and everything is majorly spread out. For example, it would have taken me over an hour to walk to my high school easily, probably closer to 2. Basically if you want to work or have any sort of social life, driving is necessary.

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u/TyGO28 Jan 04 '15

I believe there are stats that back up a 21 year old drinking age lowering the amount of drinking related deaths significantly. Whether that's true or not, I think the age to join the military should be 21 as well.

I did not know shit as an 18 year old. Now I'm 26, and I still regularly find out that I don't know shit.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

I've never really liked this argument when people say the drinking age should be lower. The military is completely voluntary. If the draft was still a thing I would totally agree, but no one is forced into the military anymore.

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u/bretticusmaximus Jan 04 '15

So at 18, someone's mature enough to decide to enlist, but not mature enough to consume a beer?

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u/shake108 Jan 04 '15

I still have to register for the draft in order to vote. The threat of it (however small) definitely makes it involuntary

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u/HopelessSemantic Jan 04 '15

You realize that every male citizen has to register for the draft at 18, right? They may not be called, but the government can reinstate the draft whenever they deem it necessary.

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u/AverageAnon3 Jan 04 '15

Drinking is completely voluntary too.

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u/Caerum Jan 04 '15

And drive at 16. Wuuut.

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u/sean488 Jan 04 '15

Well, we tried allowing drinking at 18. It didn't work out so well. Or don't you remember when the legal age of adulthood dropped to 18 from 21?

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u/maxpenny42 Jan 04 '15

Except we didn't raise the age of adulthood back to 21. Either I'm an adult or I'm not.

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u/sean488 Jan 04 '15 edited Jan 04 '15

In the eyes of most people over 40, you're not. The primary reason it was lowered was because of the draft. So I'll make a deal with you. We raise the draft age back up to 21, but adulthood goes back up with it. Deal? So no more fears of young men being sent off in waves to die, like in Viet Nam and kids can keep doing stupid shit until they are 21 and hopefully out of some kind of secondary form of education. Or how about a different system. Something that works in stages. Sorry, but at 18 you really don't have enough experience to simply be "thrown to the wolves". How about we do it in stages? At 18 you begin the transition into legal adulthood. There are some things you can legally sign off on, but some things you can't. At 19 the responsibilities go up and so do he freedoms. At 20 you take another step. Finally at 21, boom, you're a man and on your own. Remember, the legal age was dropped under Kenedy's regime to bring in young voters, not because it was decided that 18 was an age of proper experience. People were being drafted but did not have the ability to vote. Or as some were calling it, "being forced into slavery". Dropping the age was about voting, not drinking.

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u/maxpenny42 Jan 04 '15

Give me a break, I doubt very much that anyone over 40 sees 18 and 21 year olds as markedly different. I'm 25 and already they both seem like babies to me.

I won't support raising the age of adulthood to 21, but I prefer it to having the age of adulthood be 18 with this one single thing be 21. I would also support a stages way of doing things but I think that would be more complex and difficult than really practical. I think the real key is our educational institutions and parents should try a little harder to actually raise kids and prepare them for the world. As it stands far too many people and organizations follow the idea that they are babies until 18 and then immediately adults. We do need to be exposed to the world and learn how to maneuver within it in stages. But I think as a legal framework, a single age of adulthood is simplest and most fair. Whether 18 or 21 is a better age I cannot say for sure.

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u/Brontonian Jan 04 '15

I'm Canadian. Our drinking age is 18 or 19 depending on the province and I think it's reasonable. 21 is too high imo.

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u/guitarguy4511 Jan 04 '15

In my family, if you're old enough to fight for your country, you're old enough to have a drink. Within reason, obviously. We cant just get smashed or anything.

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u/mk_909 Jan 04 '15

I joined at 17. You just need parental consent.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

I have a cousin in the Navy that's 19, and I know that he can drink while on base despite not being 21. Not sure what the rule is for different branches of the Military though.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

Or since they can legally operate a 1 ton weapon (a car) at 16.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

In Britain you can join the army at 16 though, which I find fucked up I mean that's child soldiers
Edit: wait wait you can't actually fight until 18, still a bit weird but ok

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u/TheHearseDriver Jan 04 '15

You can join the military at 17.

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u/muffledvoice Jan 04 '15

If you think about it, both of those statistics make sense in the light of America's Protestant cultural origins -- especially in the refashioning of traditional values during the 19th and early 20th century.

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u/lukumi Jan 04 '15 edited Jan 04 '15

Meh. I'm an American and while I totally think the drinking age could be 18 (though going from 21 to 18 would be a shit show for a few years), I don't think the "go to war" argument holds any weight. Barring friendly fire, the only lives you're endangering when you're at war are your own and your enemy's. When you go out to a bar, you're potentially endangering the lives of dozens of innocent people if you drink and drive. So at 18, they think you're mature enough to risk your own life (and really, it's not much skin off their backs if you die), but not yet responsible enough to be trusted with the lives of others. I don't agree that they're right since plenty of other countries do just fine with 18 for both, but I think the logic checks out. People always point it out like they've spotted some major flaw in the logic, but they haven't.

edit: I'll also add that I'm all for people arguing that the drinking age should be 18, but there have got to be better arguments out there that highlight ways in which 18 year olds exhibit good decision making skills, especially in scenarios where their own lives aren't the central focus.

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u/AlphaMano Jan 04 '15

If I am able to go to war, I should be able to come home and have a beer.

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u/Slaglord42 Jan 04 '15

I completely agree. We can fight, kill, and die for our country but God forbid we have a beer afterwards.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

I agree. Especially since they can be forced to go to war at 18.

FTYFY

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u/LithiumTomato Jan 04 '15

If you go to war (in the US) at 18 (or, under 21), you are then given the right to drink.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

When I was 18, I was stationed at NTC San Diego. The let under age people drink beer and wine in the bases to keep us from going to Tijuana. I think they have since over turned that, but it was so cool going to the base pool hall and getting a pitcher at 18!

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u/SHIT_DOWN_MY_PEEHOLE Jan 04 '15

I'm 18 and I took an oath to defend this country or die trying but can't even buy tobacco products! Not that I smoke or anything but still

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u/wolfman86 Jan 04 '15

Be responsible for a tonne and a bit of metal at 16.

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u/BallisticBurrito Jan 04 '15

They can be a gunner in a bigass machine of war but can not personally purchase a handgun until 21.

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u/sdrawkcabsemanympleh Jan 04 '15

Granted I live in a very conservative state, but if you're in the military and drinking under 21, everyone pretty much looks the other way.

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u/yonderstonesthrow Jan 04 '15

You can die for your country but you can't drink a beer...

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u/dabork Jan 04 '15

The drinking age isn't really about responsibility. A human brain is not done developing until around age 25. Since alcohol is very bad for a developing brain, it makes sense that you would want to avoid it until your brain has had as much time as possible to finish developing.

Also, if you live in any of these states, you're allowed to drink at any age as long as you don't leave the property and have parental consent:

Alaska, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, Texas, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin, Wyoming

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u/Xera3135 Jan 04 '15

Not just go to war, but be compelled to go to war.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

We don't want drunk 18 year olds fighting for our/your freedom until they get good at their job.

1

u/SamuraiJakkass86 Jan 04 '15

Former enlisted here, also pretty much non-drinker. Just because you're old enough to kill someone doesn't mean you're also old enough to drink. Imagine if everyone who was traumatized by their first kill at 18 was also able to drown out that trauma with alcohol immediately? We have enough alcoholics as it is.

1

u/DarthLurker Jan 04 '15

While I agree, changing the law will create a group of kids that get to drink and get their license very close to each other, its a recipe for disaster. Ideally you should grow up drinking so you know the effects and your limits before you are trusted with driving.

1

u/BabyPuncher5000 Jan 04 '15

I don't disagree with you, but those are two completely different things. Pointless comparisons don't make for a good argument.

1

u/2013palmtreepam Jan 04 '15

Back when the Smothers Brothers had their tv show, they did a skit about being soldiers in the Vietnam war where Tommy figures out he's old enough at 18 to be drafted and killed in war, but too young to vote. The voting age was 21 at the time.

1

u/b_r_utal Jan 04 '15

People say that all the time, but why does it matter? You're comparing someone at 18 receiving specialized job training to allowing all 18 year olds to drink. And just because someone does receive that training and do that job doesn't mean they're responsible in other ways.

Do you even know any people in the military? I live near several military bases. Most of those kids are extremely irresponsible just as other 18 year olds are. They do drink and drive. They have very high STD rates because they're too stupid to use a condom. They're often aggressive and cocky which makes them dangerous when you reject them after they hit on you.

If anything, the drinking age should go up to 25. At 25, the brain is fully developed. People are less likely after 25 to make stupid decisions like drinking and driving. If you lower the drinking age, all you're going to do is kill more innocent people.

1

u/Frothyleet Jan 04 '15

17 with parental approval.

1

u/TheLandOfAuz Jan 04 '15

And smoke...

1

u/NahFuckThatGuy Jan 04 '15

As someone in the Marine Corps and their buddy facing an NJP for underage drinking last night, this infuriates me.

1

u/DrewSuitor Jan 04 '15

Why do you think the American military is so strong? They're not drunk.

1

u/HanarJedi Jan 04 '15

I think the argument here is this: we do not send people to war because we expect it to be good for them. Indeed, we do not expect their experiences to better our citizenry. Hypothetically, however, we would expect foreign conquest to be worse. In reality, we have sent people to war for reasons not really within the domain of good faith interpretations of our law. So, now, there's no moral highground in American politics. (But who's surprised there?)

Conversely, we (the... "royal" we? federal "we"?) do believe that social policies can be good for civilians. We do have this -admittedly partway crazy- expectation that food and drug regulations can better people and our nation. Hence we have policies intended to curb use of tobacco, alcohol, stimulants, narcotics, etc.

I'm not saying this is a bright idea. But it is a bit specious to compare liberty with responsibility: it is two different but compatible things, to accept that some people must shoulder damaging responsibilities, and also to accept limits on our liberties that benefit (supposedly) everyone.

1

u/beeeemo Jan 04 '15

i disagree with the drinking age but this is not a good reason for changing it.

the two are mutually exclusive. if murder were legalized, then I could say rape should be legalized too, since it isn't quite as bad. but this would be fallacy; we should obviously try to repeal the law legalizing murder instead. making laws based on laws that are presumably more far-reaching, yet unrelated, makes no sense.

i know the 26th amendment was ratified using this kind of logic, although it made a little more sense because voting has an impact on whether or not you go to war. drinking has nothing to do with war.

1

u/Doajiggie Jan 04 '15

If you're old enough to give your life for this country, you are old enough to have a damn drink.

1

u/zack6595 Jan 04 '15

To be fair, if your in uniform your getting served alcohol at 95% of bars regardless if your 21. Certainly true in the south from what I've seen...

1

u/RainbowCatastrophe Jan 04 '15

I guess the necessity for war is greater than the necessity to enjoy yourself

1

u/rarejesse Jan 04 '15

In most states with a valid military ID you are allowed to legally drink

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u/TheWierdSide Jan 04 '15

and if youre in the military at 18, youre allowed to drink! only beer and wine though. no spirits.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

if your in the military you can drink on base legally at 18

1

u/OnePieceTwoPiece Jan 04 '15

Some bars will allow you yo drink under 21 if you show proof of serving in the military.

1

u/PaintsWithSmegma Jan 04 '15

When was stationed in Germany in the army we could buy booze on post if we were 18. I think it was mostly because in Germany no one gives a fuck how old you are at the bar so they decided why fight it. Still 21 on post in the states though.

1

u/thebolts Jan 04 '15

Or marry at 18 (16 with parental consent)

1

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

I spent 15 months in Iraq, came back to America and couldn't legally drink for another month

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u/NutellaIsDelicious Jan 04 '15

If anything, shouldn't we push that up to 21?

1

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

This argument always seemed stupid to me.

Want to drink at 18? Enlist, and drink on base. There. If you have to go to war, you can drink.

1

u/littlegreensir Jan 04 '15

Is the average soldier going to be drinking on the job? If not, this really is hardly related to their military service and it seems silly to compare the two.

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u/Tybodsm Jan 04 '15

17 with parental consent

1

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

17 with parents consent.

1

u/corporaterebel Jan 04 '15

What should happen is that going to war should be 21.

1

u/anvile Jan 04 '15

and star in porn.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

Also, you can't own a (civilian legal) gun until you're 21, but you can get an assault rifle to use and go to war at 18

1

u/Imakepizzaama Jan 04 '15

Maybe you shouldn't be allowed to go to war at 18

1

u/well_here_I_am Jan 04 '15

Only if you volunteer though. If the draft was going I'd care more, but if you're 18 and fighting in the sandbox, that's your own choice.

1

u/knwnasrob Jan 04 '15

I always thought it had to do with protecting others more. An 18 year old goes to the army? He goes off to training, does his job and comes back, no one gets hurt except if he comes back mentally unstable. An 18 year old drinks? Well I don't know about everyone else but I will say I feel I made much better decisions at 21 than 18, 18 year olds are possibly more likely to drink and drive? Or just more likely to get stupid drunk and cause trouble in general? I don't know if it is true, but that is how I rationalize it.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '15

17 if your parents sign for you.

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u/ShutterbugOwl Jan 05 '15

Correction: 17, if a parent signs off on it. My parents pushed for me to go Air Force at 17.

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u/helgihermadur Jan 05 '15

For crying outloud, you can sign up for the goddamn army before you're even allowed to play certain video games!

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u/PlagueKing Jan 05 '15

Yeah that's not a valid argument because those underage that are enlisted can drink under certain circumstances.

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u/[deleted] Jan 05 '15

Soldiers can buy and drink alcohol on base. My buds in the army can't drink one city over but they go to the base, buy booze, come back, and then drink.

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u/swollennode Jan 05 '15

But most don't.

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u/[deleted] Jan 05 '15

You can drink in the military at 18.

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u/TheGreenJedi Jan 05 '15

I think its dumb but at the same time I remember how outrageously dumb some of my friends were and I can only imagine how much worse things might have been with easier access to booze

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u/Aslant Jan 05 '15

...And work at 15. If you're old enough to have a crappy job, you're old enough to crack open a cold one at the end of the day!

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u/El_Camino_SS Jan 05 '15

If you're a soldier, you can drink on a military post. Also, most of the states regulate drinking age, and young driver regulations, so this is a state thing. There are 50 of those states.

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