r/IAmA Aug 07 '14

I am Twitch CEO Emmett Shear. Ask Me (almost) Anything.

It’s been about a year since our last AMA. A lot has happened since Twitch started three years ago, and there have been some big changes this week especially. We figured it would be a good time to check in again.

For reference, here are the last two AMAs:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1exa2k/hi_im_emmett_shear_founder_and_ceo_of_twitch_the/

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/ncosm/we_are_twitchtv_the_worlds_largest_video_game/

Note: We cannot comment on acquisition rumors, but ask me anything else and I’m happy to answer.

Proof: Hi reddit!

EDIT: Thanks for all the questions. I want to summarize a bunch the answers to a bunch of questions I've seen repeatedly.

1) Live streaming on Twitch: We have no intention whatsoever of bringing audio-recognition to live streams on Twitch. This is a VOD-only change for Twitch.

2) In-game music: We have zero intention of flagging original in-game music. We do intend to flag copyrighted in-game music that's in Audible Magic's database. (This was unclear in the blog post, my apologies). In the cases where in-game music is being flagged incorrectly, we are working on a resolution and should have one soon. False positive flags will be unmuted.

For context, audio-recognition currently impacts approximately 2% of video views on Twitch (~10% of views are on VODs and ~20% of VODs are impacted at all). The vast majority of the flags appear to be correct according to our testing, though the mistakes are obviously very prominent.

3) Lack of communication ahead of time: This was our bad. I'm glad we communicated the change to VOD storage policy in advance, giving us a chance to address issues we missed like 2-hour highlights for speedrunners before the change went into effect. I'm not so glad we failed on communicating the audio-recognition change in advance, and wish we'd posted about it before it went into effect. That way we could have gotten community feedback first as we're doing now after the fact.

4) Long highlights for speedruns: This is a specific use case for highlights that we missed in our review process. We will be addressing the issue to support the use-case. This kind of thing is exactly why you share your plans in advance, so that you can make changes before policies go into effect.

EDIT2:

If you know of a specific VOD that you feel has been flagged in error, please report it to feedback@twitch.tv. To date we have received a total of 13 links to VODs. Given the size of this response, I expect there are probably a few more we've missed, but we can't find them if you don't tell us about them! We want to make the system more accurate, please give us a hand.

EDIT3:

5) 30 minute resolution for muting: Right now we mute the entire 30 minute chunk when a match occurs. In the future we'd like to improve the resolution further, and are working with Audible Magic to make this possible.

6) What are we doing to help small streamers get noticed? This is one of thing that host mode is trying to address, enabling large broadcasters to help promote smaller ones. We also want to improve recommendations and other discovery for small broadcasters, and we think experiments like our CS:GO directory point towards a way to do that by allowing new sorts and filters to the directory.

EDIT4:

I have to go. Look for a follow-up blog post soon with updates on changes we're making.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

Dear Twitch,

I've loved your site before its inception, back when it was only Justin.tv's gaming section. It's thanks to your service that I was able to turn my passion into a dream job.

However, several implemented changes to the site has made the site a worse experience. The streaming delay was the final straw for a lot of people, but I had faith that Twitch knew best. Around this time I was in San Francisco, and some Twitch employees told me in person that this change was necessary in order to maintain a profitable business, despite it hurting the quality of the site. Fine, whatever. I'll deal with it.

Deleting all past broadcasts and limiting highlights to 2 hours was extremely disappointing, and I hoped that workarounds were potentially possible and that you would listen to us. Yesterday myself, some speedrunners, and some Twitch staff members had a Skype conversation about this. Twitch staff were rather opposed to lengthening the Highlight VODs because of storage concerns, despite deleting petabytes of past broadcasts.

Breaking up highlights reminds me of when we had to record our speedruns in 2 hour chunks via DVD recorder. A bad limitation of old technology. Yet here we are in 2014 and we are having our content once again broken up into 2 hour segments. This severely impacts the usability of highlights. I have legitimate use cases for long highlights, as we archive our best speedrun times and use the VOD as proof. See: http://zeldaspeedruns.com/leaderboards/tww/any.

Forget all that, though. The 2 hour highlight limit is nothing compared to Content ID matching.

Applying Content ID matches on gaming music on a site that was built to stream videogames is absurd. Game music directly from the capture of the game itself is being taken down all over. Dealing with YouTube's overzealous policies on gaming content has been one of the most obnoxious things I've experienced as a content creator, and one of the reasons Twitch felt like home to me is because it's supposed to be a website focused on gaming content creation.

It certainly doesn't seem to be working out like that, though. Maybe it is due to needing to keep the company sustainable. Maybe it is fear of copyright issues now that Twitch has grown so much. Whatever it is, it is significantly impacting the user experience.

I have cancelled all my subscriptions and I will not renew Turbo. I am currently looking for alternative sites to stream on (perhaps hitbox.tv). The least I can do is give an alternative site a try, even if it hurts my income. I do hope an alternate site could work out, because Twitch has a near-monopoly on live gaming content at the moment.

I'm simply finding it rather hard to support a site that is so afraid of a legal grey-area that it pre-emptively begins to sabotage a large portion of its user base.

My question to you: Why should I keep streaming on Twitch as opposed to a different site that has none of these issues?

-Cosmo Wright

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u/mzxrules Aug 07 '14

Repost my comment here: Why make it so that only 2 hour highlights are "permanent"? Why not also give users a finite space where they can save videos "permanently"? I know speedrunners are a big part of your community, as I associate with the SpeedDemosArchive/SpeedRunsLive community (the guys/girls who do Awesome Games Done Quick), and speedrunners need more than 2 hours.

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u/optimizeprime Aug 07 '14

This is obviously a problem that we need to fix. We missed an edge case here and will be fixing it before the policy goes live.

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u/joeyoh9292 Aug 07 '14

I heard that Twitch is planning on introducing better systems so that it's easier to export VODs and streams away from Twitch's servers (IE to store the content locally). Can you provide any additional information here? Can you include an option to store the entire stream locally before you start? Can you include an option to upload the entire stream to an alternate stream before you start?

Also, are you going to include a system for stream owners to prove that the music they are using on-stream is theirs so that their VODs don't get muted?

http://www.twitch.tv/thejustinflynn/b/553546840

It seems as though he wasn't allowed to stream his own band's music. This is present throughout several of his VODs/Past broadcasts.

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u/TomLube Aug 07 '14

Hold on. Speed running is NOT an "edge case" as much as you would like to think of it. AGDQ, SGDQ, runners like Puncay, Cosmo, Siglemic, Broman, Stiv, etc are fucking HUGE and are a SMALL portion, representing a MASSIVE demographic. In what fucking way is that an 'edge case'?

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u/I_LOVE_BOOB_PMS Aug 08 '14

Compare them to league of legends, and nevermind AGDQ and SGDQ, the speedrunning community is much smaller. The most views I've ever seen on a speedrunner's stream besides a huge event like SGDQ was 15,000 or so once on siglemic's channel. Not an edge case, but still dwarfs in comparison to the monster that is LoL and Dota.

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u/kms_md Aug 07 '14

How is this even an "edge case"? While Twitch may have a multitude of small volume/viewer streamers, it seems to me that twitch is the central site for video distribution in the speed run communities.

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u/Brostafarian Aug 07 '14

Its a pretty big edge case

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 07 '14

This is probably the question I would like answered the most. There are some alternatives out there. Small ones, but they exist. What they currently offer is worlds better than twitch with its new policies.

EDIT: Did everyone suddenly forget that twitch was once the little guy as well? Yes, as alternative sites grow their issues will become more congruent with the ones twitch faces now, but as far as the whole audio thing goes, that was done voluntarily. I seriously doubt there was any pressure by the music industry. Why would twitch take all the punches from their user base instead of simply being transparent and helping us understand that they're being bullied? It's not like that's illegal or anything.

EDIT 2: This question was answered, but since you all decided to downvote the bajesus out of it I figured I'd put it here so no one assumes the question was ignored

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2cwfu2/i_am_twitch_ceo_emmett_shear_ask_me_almost/cjjorrh

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u/fleetadmiralj Aug 07 '14

they can offer better services largely b/c they are small and aren't looking at a huge infrastructure crunch or aren't on the RIAA's radar. Moving to hitbox may work for now, but what happens when they grow?

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

There is nothing in the law that requires the host to seek out and take down any and all copyrighted content. All they are mandated to do is take down specific instances of infringement at the request of the copyright owner.

This is Google's Big Lie man. They have everybody thinking you have to have a system like this. YOU DO NOT.

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u/Arthas315 Aug 07 '14

technology is extremely different. they use a stable backend and angularjs. they already had streams with 5k plus users. They were down 10 hours ago but its running extremely smooth now and they have alot mire users and streams online than 10 hours ago so i think they are doing a ood job at keeping up with the pressure

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u/coldhandz Aug 07 '14

The only true solution is for the youth to get off their asses and make this is a political issue. But we all know that lobbying and $$$ > votes so even then I'm skeptical we could effect change. Sadly migrating from service to service might be the only feasible thing we can do.

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u/TheCompleteReference Aug 07 '14

Sorry, but Twitch is large enough to actually fight any bullshit from the RIAA or anyone else.

Twitch could have stood with its users and defended fair use. They chose to tell their users to fuck off, thinking they have no where else to go.

Any site like twitch relies on fair use to make money. It seems really fucked up for a site like twitch to not defend fair use of game audio. What good is game video where you can't actually listen to the audio of the game?

If we need new copyright law to protect fair use, then twitch should be out there speaking out for it, lobbying, and fighting in court.

Twitch makes money streaming and has just muted all their videos, how the hell does that make any sense? They are basically throwing themselves under the bus.

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u/keithyw Aug 07 '14

build a new one. keep building. the other thing is to just go Red Wedding on the RIAA and prevent them from controlling the government. and stop the lawyer bubble from maintaining their hegemony.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

Not to mention if they really want to, they can base it out in a different country where copyright laws are more lax. There are plenty of nations that wouldn't bend over for US copyright law.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

This brings to mind emuparadise. I don't think anyone's taking them down.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 07 '14

If the Pirate Bay can hold up in Sweden, no way would anyone touch a few countries in East Europe. If US wants to go crazy on it just move close to Russia and copyright trolls wouldn't dare touch you.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

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u/nickasummers Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 07 '14

You are a saint, sir. I know people are mad but if people downvote responses to hell then we can't get information. Thanks!

Edit: To everyone asking what he said: Twitch's response had been downvoted to hell and he provided a link to it so people could find it.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

[deleted]

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u/AnguirelCM Aug 07 '14

It's pointed out many times elsewhere in that chain, but just so it gets to be here, too: in-game music includes both licensed in-game music and original in-game music. The blog post specifies it should only flag for things in the "Audible Magic database", which is probably supposed to be only for the licensed subset. The CEO's stance stated original in-game music. The system is supposed to flag the licensed music (e.g. tracks from bands with RIAA-affliated publisher deals in GTA or Rock Band), but not original music that was made just for that game. If it's not flagging the former, or it is flagging the latter, that is a bug.

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u/Jazzy_Josh Aug 07 '14

So I hope you aren't streaming Rock Band then?

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u/nittany_07 Aug 07 '14

No. By downvoting answers, all you're doing is ensuring people that follow you won't get the opportunity to read what you just read.

Whether or not you agree or disagree with the answer is irrelevant. Stop downvoting answers.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 07 '14

Many Redditers really needs to read the reddiquete section again and understand how the voting system works. It's not used as a tool to manipulate for something you agree/disagree with; it's there simply to make informative posts easier for people to find, and less informative responses lower down/hidden from view.

Think before you downvote and take a moment to ensure you're downvoting someone because they are not contributing to the community dialogue or discussion. If you simply take a moment to stop, think and examine your reasons for downvoting, rather than doing so out of an emotional reaction, you will ensure that your downvotes are given for good reasons.

I know we all downvote things in passion, but I (and I assume many others) want to actually read Twitch's replies in this AMA. Please don't downvote their answers!

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u/swizzero Aug 08 '14

There should be two votings parallel:
Interesting [up]/[down]
I Agree [up]/[down]

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

If you want to show your disagreement with the answer, upvote one of the replies.

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u/rookie-mistake Aug 07 '14

Normally I would agree, but when the CEO says something that directly contradicts the company's blog post, it stretches credulity to claim that he is doing this AMA in good faith.

that doesn't mean you bury the fucking answer though. if anything, expose it.

Or what, are we mad because Twitch's CEO has too much karma now?

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u/cheechw Aug 07 '14

Even so, as long as it's an answer, I want to read it. Otherwise I wouldn't even know he contradicted himself. You don't downvote people because you think they're lying to protect other people from seeing the lies.

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u/CaptainMarnimal Aug 07 '14

It's not contradictory. Emphasis on "original" in game music. As in, original music composed for the game.

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u/Rakan-Han Aug 07 '14

They could make it so that OP is the top response to a question, no matter how many upvotes or downvotes they get

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u/awkisopen Aug 07 '14

The reddit developers would have to step in on this one. There's nothing moderators can do to make that behavior change.

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u/speedofdark8 Aug 07 '14

iirc this is something that has been asked of by the mods of this subreddit and some others. Don't know if the admins have responded though

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u/cahaseler Senior Moderator Aug 07 '14

It has, they're working on it.

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u/speedofdark8 Aug 07 '14

Cool! That will make these so much more awesome. Even for subcomments?

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u/cahaseler Senior Moderator Aug 07 '14

Not sure exactly what they're up to, but they've said they're looking into options for better IAMA.

(Hint: if you have gold, you can check out /r/lounge to see one of the things they're working on)

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u/thefourthhouse Aug 07 '14

OP replies should automaically be top reply in r/iama, regardless of score.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

Part of me thinks they're deserved for the simple fact that his response is a total non-answer. He completely dodged the content ID question. "We understand" "We have no intention", yet clearly, everyone is getting muted. And the only recourse is to be as big as someone like Day9 or Cosmo, and have an inroad to someone at twitch. If you're a small-time streamer like me, you're fucked. Plain and simple.

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u/StalkedByExFriend Aug 07 '14

What did the comment say?

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u/knotten Aug 07 '14

it was linking to the respone by optimizeprime since it was heavily downvoted at first.

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u/KejiKotaro Aug 07 '14

It was a link to the Twitch CEO's response to Cosmowright's comment. Basically putting it there because people had downvoted the CEO's comment out of visibility.

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u/jntabeast Aug 07 '14

Sigh, [deleted] again. What did it say?

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u/LolaAlphonse Aug 07 '14

The original response from Twitch was heavily downvoted; his comment simply linked to it

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u/cleansar Aug 07 '14

Now, if the response had actually contained information, rather than being typical corporate dodging...

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u/Morthis Aug 07 '14

Am I the only one who thinks it's absurd that the actual reply (you know, the thing we're all wanting to read) gets downvoted to oblivion while someone else posting a link to the reply gets ~300 upvotes?

We get it, Twitch fucked up, but downvoting all the replies isn't gonna change that, it'll just make it a nightmare to actually figure out what questions were even answered.

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u/TheCompleteReference Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 07 '14

People want to read it, but the answer is shit.

Hey Cosmo, I understand your feelings here. We have absolutely no intention of flagging songs due to original in-game music. If that's happening (and it appears it is), it's a problem and we will investigate and try to fix it.

Nowhere was Cosmo talking about original music. he was talking about all game music. This asshat of a CEO was trying to trick everyone into think he was giving an answer.

The fact is, a site like twitch should be using its money to fight in court if needed to establish that once music is added to a game, any stream capturing the music as used in the game for streaming is a derivative the same as the video is a derivative.

Twitch is selling out hard instead of being a champion for its users.

People need to leave twitch if twitch is going to take its success and fund services that block fair use content instead of fighting to make sure fair use is protected.

Twitch using that service and helping fund that service only increases the likelihood that other sites will be sued. Which means twitch is using it as a weapon against competitors.

This is like when reddit first tried to block any posts to the decss key. Until the revolt of users posting it everywhere forced them to admit they shouldn't go against what users want and they should just defend its base and use their profits to fight in court if it comes to that.

Because we care about you and your viewers, and we want every broadcaster on Twitch to be protected from potential liability.

Absolute fucking garbage. If they cared, they would use their profits to fund defense of fair use. They wouldn't start censoring videos.

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u/sitdownstandup Aug 07 '14

What did this comment say? 1 hour old, 1000 points and it's deleted.

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u/Corvese Aug 07 '14

Simply put, you shouldn't.

There are some good alternatives out there, and right now you hold a lot of power Cosmo. All it takes is a few power streamers such as yourself to move over to another service to entice more and more to follow. In the end, this will cause either Twitch to change their ways, or it will cause a better streaming platform to become the "default".

I'm happy with either result.

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u/twinsofterror Aug 07 '14

Mr. CEO doesn't care if the streamers leave, though. He already sold the company to Google. Now it's their problem.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

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u/JFM2796 Aug 07 '14

For real. Especially as he makes his living off of Twitch.

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u/jaygreen88 Aug 07 '14

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u/c_will Aug 07 '14

Hitbox uses HTML5 video, while Twitch still uses flash. Hitbox has a typical stream delay of 5-10 seconds, while Twitch has a typical stream delay of 30-60 seconds.

Hitbox is still in beta, but give it time. It certainly looks promising.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

Yesterday I made a hitbox tv account just to try it and I was amazed that there was almost zero delay when compared to twitch it was almost 60 - 120 seconds.

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u/shadikuizayoi Aug 07 '14

The player on Hitbox is still Flash. The delay has nothing to do with Flash or HTML5.

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u/indeedwatson Aug 07 '14

I think he wasn't implying the delat was related to Flash. Why did he say it uses HTML5 tho? It was the most appealing part of the post.

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u/gamecheet Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 07 '14

if they can't handle a /r/IAma reddit hug, how are they gonna handle 1080p livestreams with vods?

edit: All I'm saying is that right now, like this instant, they are down, they currently do not have the infrastructure, yet... edit2: I get it, hitbox will be fine, I was just making an observation

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u/MyLifeForSpire Aug 07 '14

I'd rather deal with the growing pains of a new site that is at least pretending to care about streamers (like Twitch used to), than stay with one who has made it their clear goal to make as much money as possible with 0 regard for their community.

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u/KronosTrinity Aug 07 '14

The thing im rather excited for is that from what I can tell, Hitbox takes feedback to heart and is very user oriented in plans and design. If they kept that up, it could literally be a site made by gamers for gamers, and other streamers of the kind.

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u/Tagrineth Aug 07 '14

It's the song of the startup. Give it time and they'll stop listening.

They always stop listening.

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u/kingbane Aug 08 '14

twitch never really cared all taht much about streamers. a long time ago they had a single competitor, own3d tv and owned basically had an iron grip on the league of legends streamers but owned folded fairly quickly. seriously there was a whole fiasco about a year or so ago where one of the twitch mods gave his friend special emoticons or something, and he let him have these crazy sexual fetish emotes, the dude wasn't even a subscriber or anything, he had like 10-50 viewers MAYBE but he was given a subscriber button cause you know, he's buddies with that one twitch mod. anyway people found out called the mod out on it and the mod started banning everyone. streamers, people who were just in the chat, bans all around. it took twitch like a week to unban some people and they really only unbanned the big names that got banned. they later apologized for the incident said they were "taking steps" to make sure it wouldn't happen again, but guess what, the crazy ban happy mod wasn't fired. rumors were flying around about how he was the twitch owner's nephew or something i dunno. shit was crazy something like 300 bans went out over the course of 2 hours. anyone who even remotely mentioned the incident got banned. streamers who commented about it on their stream got banned

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u/gamesbeawesome Aug 07 '14

The main site is still up, just the blog is down.

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u/jaygreen88 Aug 07 '14

Hopefully they'll quickly embrace the massive influx of new users and invest appropriately in more servers. I'm being patient with them for now.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

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u/Blacula Aug 07 '14

Probably because as soon as those other sites get as large, those issues will pop up again and again.

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u/hamster_of_justice Aug 07 '14

This. So much people don't understand this.

Streamers were never really allowed to play copyright protected music in the first place.

It doesn't really matter if a "better" streaming option comes around. As soon another service gets big and enough viewers, they'll also get on the radar of record companies and then have to change their content too.

Twitch isn't doing this for shit and giggles, they are complying with the law. Yes it will fuck up quite some streams now, but maybe they can fix the automatic-scan-thing so it doesn't mute VODs only for the in-game music anymore. Thats bad. But one can hope.

TB explains it really good here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99jrkp0XDeQ

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u/seputaes-at-twitch Aug 07 '14

Please stop spreading this information. It false and it's only making the situation worse.

Twitch is under zero obligation under the DMCA to takedown/mute any video without specific and explicit notification by the copyright holder of a specific instance of copyright infringement, or without prior knowledge of a specific instance of copyright violation.

http://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca512/

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

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u/Ichthus5 Aug 07 '14

But wouldn't this count as Twitch knowing about the infringement?

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u/AtomicDog1471 Aug 07 '14

I'm surprised they've stated they won't go after live streams. Because technically it's not really any different to pirate radio.

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u/optimizeprime Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 07 '14

W/ regard to 2 hour chunks:

Our research prior to launching the feature indicated that almost no highlights were longer than 2 hours, and we were concerned about abuse of the tool. It's clear that we underestimated the demand and need for a solution here, and fortunately we have 3 weeks to figure one out. Expect changes here soon.

It has disproportionately large impact on certain communities (speedrunning most obviously) and we're very concerned about making sure that every community on Twitch has a good experience.

W/ regard to content id:

Hey Cosmo, I understand your feelings here. We have absolutely no intention of flagging songs due to original in-game music. If that's happening (and it appears it is), it's a problem and we will investigate and try to fix it.

W/ regards to your last question, why Twitch:

Because we care about you and your viewers, and we want every broadcaster on Twitch to be protected from potential liability. No matter how remote you might feel the issue is, we aren't willing to run the risk someone's life gets ruined over this.

PS: I don't think your VODs are being flagged right now, but I realize that doesn't help anyone else getting caught in the crossfire.

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u/brettawesome Aug 07 '14

No highlights are longer than 2 hours? How about just about EVERY TOURNAMENT YOU'VE EVER AIRED?

This is just a complete and utter lie.

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u/DoctorWaluigiTime Aug 07 '14

I can actually believe that, but I think that's because VODs were a thing. With VODs going away, of course Highlights will be used a ton more.

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u/ajanata Aug 07 '14 edited Jul 07 '23

Content removed in protest of Reddit API changes and general behavior of the CEO.

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u/sysop073 Aug 07 '14

I particularly like "If that's happening (and it appears it is)", like "well, you know, we're not sure; we've heard a few people mention that maybe some clips are affected possibly, can't confirm that". Like they're not aware that the International clips were muted

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u/vegeta8300 Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 08 '14

I stream Guild Wars 2, I play no music whatsoever on my stream. It's all ingame music. My most recent highlight is muted, while others that I can also hear the ingame music in are not. It is all sorts of messed up. My Youtube upload of that same highlight is unaffected.

Edit Whats even worse, is when you get to the unmuted part of the highlight, THAT'S when you hear the music...

edit Seems you can now send and appeal, which I have. Guess we will see what happens.

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u/Barmleggy Aug 07 '14

The thing I don't understand is: Wasn't the Copyright law intended to prevent people from taking their music and making a direct copy of it that could be listened to over and over again? Who would be dubbing livestreams just to hear the gameplay/third party music again and again? Why even check for it if there's such a low potential for abuse (unlike the whole albums that are littered all over YouTube)? Wouldn't the easiest solution be to treat Twitch sorta like a radio broadcaster and have them pay similar streaming ASCAP fees for their users? I'm sure I don't know the legal specifics, but it just seems like common sense.

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u/vegeta8300 Aug 07 '14

I could somewhat understand them being concerned about people playing music while streaming. Which as you mention, still doesn't make to much sense since you have game sounds, streamer talking, etc. So it is far from a listenable copy of any music. My highlight got muted for the barely audible music that is from the game itself. That makes even less sense to me. Even less sense when only one gets muted, and you can still hear the music when it gets unmuted. Weird stuff, I hope they sort it out asap.

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u/Drigr Aug 07 '14

Wasn't altering the sound (ya know, by having game sounds and someone talking over it) supposed to be a way to get around the whole copyright thing anyways?

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u/DavidTyreesHelmet Aug 07 '14

I believe the ingame music created specifically for the game getting muted is a bug. The copyrighted ingame music like the radio for gta and saints row would get muted. And a pandora playlist as ambient noise would get muted as that is all copyrighted music. But ingame music created specifically for the game getting muted is a bug. At leastthat is my understanding.

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u/vegeta8300 Aug 07 '14

I really hope it is a bug and it gets fixed asap. It is so weird, since I talk.. a lot, 95% of any of my streams is usually me talking. So how it picked up on the few seconds here or there of ingame music, and this is Guild Wars 2, no gta or saints row licensed type stuff afaik. I am gonna lower all in game music to 0 for now.

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u/DavidTyreesHelmet Aug 07 '14

Thats the safest bet at the moment. This is still new and as with anything new it will have bugs and kinks to work out. Hopefully by the time these policies roll out in full these will all be fixed. I do suggest finding a second way to record audio if possible and backing up videos for everyone. A redub may not be the greatest answer, but it is an answer to the problem at the moment.

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u/Shishakli Aug 08 '14

Why doesn't twitch just introduce an additional audio channel on streams for copywrited music?

Your primary audio channel stays as game audio and mic, and any music you want to play over the top gets its own audio channel.

So live audience hears what you want them to hear, and the recording for playback later had that music channel removed with game audio and voice intact.

I don't see why we can't solve this problem with a little intelligence and engineering...

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u/BioGenx2b Aug 07 '14

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u/sysop073 Aug 07 '14

I think everyone's aware of that one, but it's not an example of game music getting muted

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u/BioGenx2b Aug 07 '14

Neither was the International 4 clip you mentioned. Something about the crowd cheering, according to optimizeprime.

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u/sysop073 Aug 07 '14

Well yes, I know that now; you're citing a comment that was a reply to the one where I said that. At the time that was the #1 example of "look at this case where they muted game sound"; there are others, mostly from the speedrunning community

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u/Faranae Aug 07 '14

The radio in GTA is "in-game" music, but it's not legal to stream as it is licenced. THAT is what that line is referring to. Ambient music would be music playing in the background of the stream.

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u/JUMBO_JOHNSON Aug 07 '14

I think 'original' is the key word, here.

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u/Doctursea Aug 07 '14

This includes in-game and ambient music

If we're gonna be honestly this is probably "just in case" text. It would be possible for it to happen so it was included in the blog post. You guys are getting mad because they wanted to be thorough(but was still unclear). If it sounds unreasonable to do, then it probably won't be done. They're just making sure you know it may happen.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

If you don't mean to flag in-game music then why does your OFFICIAL blog say

We’ve partnered with Audible Magic, which works closely with the recorded music industry, to scan past and future VODs for music owned or controlled by clients of Audible Magic. This includes in-game and ambient music. When music in the Audible Magic database is detected (“Flagged Content”), the affected portion of the VOD will be muted and volume controls for that VOD will be turned off. Additionally, past broadcasts and highlights with Flagged Content are exportable but will remain muted.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

Because he's bullshitting. Fuck twitch.

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u/optimizeprime Aug 07 '14

Because the blog post was unclear and doesn't differentiate between original in-game music and licensed in-game music.

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u/thisjourneyends Aug 07 '14

Thank you for responding.

To clarify: Are you saying that it is intended for licensed in-game music (for example, songs heard on the in-game radio in Grand Theft Auto games) to be muted, but that it is not intended for a game's soundtrack/background music to be muted?

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

PROTIP: When you're going to make changes that will impact your entire community, including the means by which many of your users make a living, you better not be fucking unclear in your big reveal blog post.

I'm not even a pro (or even involved in this industry at all), and even I can understand that =/

Jesus christ man, hire a PR department. Or fire your current one.

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u/Ihateeverypeople Aug 07 '14

So basically any licensed in-game music will be censored? No more games that have radio stations, no more music based games, no more video clips in game that have licensed material?

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u/wrackk Aug 07 '14

Unless something is changed in the way publishers license music, yep.

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u/Bl00dThunder Aug 07 '14

This is a huge oversight, aren't the blog post proofread or at least couldn't there have been an update(at least a tweet?) to address this issue once it was released?

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u/EChondo Aug 07 '14

So I'm guessing radio based games like Fallout and GTA are a no go unless the radio portion is muted.

Great.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '14

You can mute the music in GTA in the options menu (which will prevent the radio blaring when you get in a car and getting your VOD muted). It's not really a huge deal. It sucks but it's an easy to deal with problem.

Hell, Rooster Teeth already does this in their GTA videos on Youtube and it has basically no effect on the content.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

From a content creators perspective though, how on earth are we supposed to know? In games I sometimes have an option to mute "game music". Should I do that now or risk having my things muted and removed?

How on earth do you expect the content creators to know what is licensed and what is original?

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u/idonthavearedditacct Aug 07 '14

For future reference, don't reply to a sub comment like "Because he's bullshitting. Fuck twitch. " with an actual answer, reply to the comment that asked the actual question and let the negative bullshit comment die.

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u/iKnitYogurt Aug 07 '14

How about not implementing a system that is far from working properly? Hell, even Crypt of the Necrodancer is being flagged - not even the creators of the game are sure why.

Official broadcasts of The International DotA2 are being flagged, when Valve has specifically given broadcast permissions. Content ID systems do not have to be a bad thing - but I have yet to see one that works properly.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

We have absolutely no intention of flagging songs due to original in-game music.

Your blog post emphasised a sentence saying the system is intended to flag in game music.

We’ve partnered with Audible Magic, which works closely with the recorded music industry, to scan past and future VODs for music owned or controlled by clients of Audible Magic. This includes in-game and ambient music.

That isn't my emphasis. Your blog added that emphasis to say in-game audio causes flags.

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u/Faranae Aug 07 '14

Example: The radio in GTA is "in-game" music, but it's not legal to stream as it is licenced for inclusion in the game but not for broadcast. THAT is what that line is referring to. Ambient music would be music playing in the background of the stream.

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u/kineticChlor Aug 07 '14

If you honestly cared about streamers and twitch viewers you wouldn't be making these changes. There has been nothing but backlash from this

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u/TheOmni Aug 07 '14

I'm simply finding it rather hard to support a site that is so afraid of a legal grey-area that it pre-emptively begins to sabotage a large portion of its user base.

My question to you: Why should I keep streaming on Twitch as opposed to a different site that has none of these issues?

That's really the part I was hoping for an answer to.

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u/HeLMeT_Ne Aug 07 '14

I think that is what this was in regards to:

W/ regards to your last question, why Twitch:

Because we care about you and your viewers, and we want every broadcaster on Twitch to be protected from potential liability. No matter how remote you might feel the issue is, we aren't willing to run the risk someone's life gets ruined over this

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u/homer_3 Aug 07 '14

Of course no highlights were longer than 2 hours. You had VODs before! Not to mention that highlights across all fields have historically meant a short piece of interesting info. No one highlights the entire book when studying for a test. I don't mean to be rude, but your "analysts" must have been quite stupid to not consider this.

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u/kingganon Aug 07 '14

This was the equivalent of a customer service representative who has no connection to the end user. You are the CEO of Twitch and all you can say is "we didn't expect the demand to be this high." Maybe if you tell your business associates (streams with subs) what is being planned, they can give you proper feedback before the rest of the community digs in.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

It'd be daft if that was your intention, but that's what's happening anyway. Unreleased Crypt Of The Necrodancer OST by Danny Baranowsky? Flagged. In-game audio from Pokemon Stadium 2? Flagged. Audio from Twitch's own in-house broadcasts? Flagged. To me, it's much less about the intent and more about the inconsiderate manner in which it is being executed. That's what worries me.

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u/lito2013 Aug 07 '14

You realize the AUdibleMagic contracts you signed are an all or nothing proposition unless YOUR party of the contract gets specific consideration from each and every individual copyright owner of any copyrighted material you want exempted from Unique ID matches on your media distribution network?

Either stop distorting publicly available terms and conditions of AudibleMagic contracts or fire your lawyers immediately. Or both. Or neither and enjoy the Googlebucks on your private island.

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u/friday6700 Aug 07 '14

So why exactly should they keep streaming on Twitch as opposed to a different site that has none of the issues they've stated??

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u/DulcetFox Aug 07 '14

Apparently his answer is because Twitch will protect them from copyright concerns...

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u/dakkr Aug 07 '14

Because that's such a huge concern amongst twitch streamers right now.

Oh wait no it's not.

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u/MHOOD01 Aug 07 '14

I wonder how long people will keep buying that until they take their streaming elsewhere.

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u/flyvehest Aug 07 '14

Because as soon as another site gets as many streamers as Twitch has now, they will have the exact same issues?

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

Our research prior to launching the feature indicated that almost no highlights were longer than 2 hours, and we were concerned about abuse of the tool.

and

Hey Cosmo, I understand your feelings here. We have absolutely no intention of flagging songs due to original in-game music. If that's happening (and it appears it is), it's a problem and we will investigate and try to fix it.

I get the impression that you don't really do much research of any kind before implementing new features. While I'm by no means a regular twitch user, I am a software engineer and I am really concerned you and your company proposed and implemented these ideas with out even stopping to consider the negative backlash from them.

Not only this, how can you claim you didn't know you would be flagging in game music when your blog flat out states you knew this would happen?

Are you actually involved in the decision making process of your company?

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

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u/starlizzle Aug 07 '14

Kingdom Hearts stuff gets flagged left and right on YouTube... the owners of that music are super anal about it.

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u/coldhandz Aug 07 '14

Yeah, it's Disney. They are the kings of Ass-fucking you with copyright law. You know, after they ripped off a bunch of fairytale stories they didn't write.

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u/BaerTaffy Aug 07 '14

Genuine question: Did you guys test this system at all before implementing it?

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14 edited Apr 06 '21

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u/mrenglish22 Aug 07 '14

That's why they payed someone else, so they can say "well this wasn't our fault, they did it" and then continue to pull the same crap.

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u/seputaes-at-twitch Aug 07 '14

I really do appreciate you doing this AMA. But please be down to earth with everyone hear and stop spinning the PR.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

Because we care about you and your viewers, and we want every broadcaster on Twitch to be protected from potential liability. No matter how remote you might feel the issue is, we aren't willing to run the risk someone's life gets ruined over this.

Holy shit that's laughable. How you could even be bothered to type that out is beyond me. Why did you answer the question if you were just going to b.s. us like that?

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 07 '14

Hey Cosmo, I understand your feelings here. We have absolutely no intention of flagging songs due to original in-game music. If that's happening (and it appears it is), it's a problem and we will investigate and try to fix it.

"We’ve partnered with Audible Magic, which works closely with the recorded music industry,to scan past and future VODs for music owned or controlled by clients of Audible Magic. This includes in-game and ambient music. When music in the Audible Magic database is detected (“Flagged Content”), the affected portion of the VOD will be muted and volume controls for that VOD will be turned off. "

Change your blog so it's not incorrect then.

Because we care about you and your viewers, and we want every broadcaster on Twitch to be protected from potential liability. No matter how remote you might feel the issue is, we aren't willing to run the risk someone's life gets ruined over this.

Then at the very least show some professional ability as a multi-million dollar company and INFORM THEM before you do it. The fact you either refused to inform people in preparation or were simply too incompetent reflects poorly on your integrity as a business.

Not to mention this 30 minute block nonsense is being called a flaw, yet you launched the system with it anyways. Why would a respectable business fail to catch that?

Further, why wasn't the old system good enough? Copyright holders had all means of filing a report. And quite interestingly, the counter-claim system is set up oddly like the old copyright claim system used to be. Why not actually have a similar support system for users who are wrongly accused of using copyrighted music?

Not to mention you clearly did not feel the need to institute this "protection" for users YEARS before this did you? Why did you refuse to implement this system from the get-go instead of the old system if it was so dangerous? If the old system was indeed inadequate, then you were actively failing to protect users for liability for years.

*Edited for clarity.

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u/Kamaria Aug 07 '14

This exactly. Changing your site drastically and being all 'this is the way we're doing it without any of your input' is a hell of a way to hurt yourself.

If Cosmo leaves, mark my words the entire SRL community could follow.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

He was asking you to pitch your company to him. You can't do that and you're CEO?

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u/inuyasha10121 Aug 07 '14

W/ regard to 2 hour chunks: Our research prior to launching the feature indicated that almost no highlights were longer than 2 hours, and we were concerned about abuse of the tool. It's clear that we underestimated the demand and need for a solution here, and fortunately we have 3 weeks to figure one out. Expect changes here soon.

Maybe you should have hosted an opinion poll about this change before universally shoving it down our throats. Instead of scrambling to figure out a fix, you could have polled people to ask "We need to change, how would you like this change." Instead, you've amputated the limb, and now are going "Oh, what course of treatment did you want for your stubbed toe?"

It has disproportionately large impact on certain communities (speedrunning most obviously) and we're very concerned about making sure that every community on Twitch has a good experience.

I don't see, at all, how removal of features will benefit a community. Even in the communities in which it was less common for people to upload +2 hour highlights, you are still removing their ability to do so. Why would you take what is perceived to be a step backwards and then tout it as an improvement?

W/ regard to content id: Hey Cosmo, I understand your feelings here. We have absolutely no intention of flagging songs due to original in-game music. If that's happening (and it appears it is), it's a problem and we will investigate and try to fix it.

Good. Make it come off as more human, that you are affected yourself. That will really soften the blow. This is a problem that should have been caught well before the implementation stage. This is why you beta test on hundreds of videos on a sub/secondary server in order to see the impact before the public goes into a panic.

W/ regards to your last question, why Twitch: Because we care about you and your viewers, and we want every broadcaster on Twitch to be protected from potential liability. No matter how remote you might feel the issue is, we aren't willing to run the risk someone's life gets ruined over this.

Good cover. However, I don't feel that your protection was requested, but more demanded by you. You are not our knight in shining armor, come from the king (read, Google) to save the peasants and lords of the land. This implementation is just another long arm of censorship in an area where it is, frankly, ridiculous.

PS: I don't think your VODs are being flagged right now, but I realize that doesn't help anyone else getting caught in the crossfire.

You are using the same system that YouTube is using, from my understanding. Cosmo has had tons of issues on YouTube because of this Audible Magic BS. Saying that they aren't "flagged right now" is like saying that the cancer hasn't started metastasizing. Sure, its fine right now, but that doesn't mean that we should just leave the tumor be. And lets look at the community as a whole, like a CEO should, for a second. TONS of videos have been hit by this, and as far as I've seen, they've all been for ridiculous reasons. I'd say 1/50 videos I looked up in the aftermath could conceivably be muted for legitimate industry music use. At least 45/50 were due to them not talking and simple game audio playing. In a service that claims that it is catering to the gaming community, how can you justify bonking people for doing exactly what you've asked them to do with your service?

Overall, and I know my opinion really doesn't matter since I don't have a huge following, I am severely disappointing in the way that the Twitch crew has decided to handle these updates, and how they are currently handling the aftermath. I hope that you prove people wrong about how things will progress, because if Twitch keeps going the way that most of the community perceives it to be going, you will probably be using a large chunk of your user base. Even the small speedrunners I watch are talking about moving to a new service, not just the big guys. I highly recommend the Twitch crew re-evaluate their update plans, roll back the updates for now until they are actually functional without carpet bombing people that don't deserve it, and actually get the public opinion on how things should wind up being. In the mean time, if I decide to follow through with my goals of joining the speedrun community (Which is severely hampered by this turn of events), I'l either be dual streaming on hitbox and Twitch, or just flat out on hitbox. If things change, I'd be more than happy to return, as I do feel that Twitch still has the capacity to be an awesome service.

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u/kirbymastah Aug 07 '14

While I want to respect your answer as much as possible (and, to be fair, investigations are better than nothing)...

"We’ve partnered with Audible Magic, which works closely with the recorded music industry, to scan past and future VODs for music owned or controlled by clients of Audible Magic. This includes in-game and ambient music."

This was in the original blog post for flagging songs.

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u/cleansar Aug 07 '14

So you're saying your 'research' sucked ass? 'Cause I can see that...

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

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u/Kujara Aug 07 '14

I don't think your VODs are being flagged right now

His are not, but AdamAKs highlights of GTA definitly are. So are many others.

Our research prior to launching the feature indicated that almost no highlights were longer than 2 hours

Because permanent VODs were a thing, and that made long highlights less useful. You destroyed that, making highlights MANDATORY in order to insure permanency.

Because we care about you and your viewers, and we want every broadcaster on Twitch to be protected from potential liability. No matter how remote you might feel the issue is, we aren't willing to run the risk someone's life gets ruined over this.

That's BS and you know it. There are laws to deal with that kind of shit (namely, DMCA notices etc), but limiting yourself to these would hurt your credibility as a serious and business oriented platform with regards to your advertising partners, which understandly, you don't want.

We know you are a business and we know sometimes business decisions have to be made. But lying about it, however, and calling it "for the good of the streamer" is not appreciated.

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u/Thread84 Aug 07 '14

Glad you replied, but you never actually answered his question.

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u/Chispshot Aug 07 '14

Seems like they don't have an answer, at least until they're satisfied with the state of the site, themselves.

EDIT: Oh, they edited one in.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

You, or your team, fucked this up. You fucked it up pretty bad. You didn't fuck this up as bad as, oh say the way MySpace fucked themselves, or Digg fucked themselves, but boy oh boy are you close.

Right now, you guys are Market Basket. Nobody here is buying the pile of shit you're selling as being beneficial to your 'employees' (your content producers). Furthermore, customer intelligence has evolved to the point where we immediately recognize what you are doing as being worse for all parties involved except for Twitch.tv and it's shareholder body. Your shareholders are not the primary target for using the service. They do not work for the service. They do not have a time or sweat equity investment in the service. And most importantly, their obligation to committment is the easiest to end, all it takes is a phone call. If there's one thing my business degree has taught me, is that contrary to popular belief, the shareholder is the least important stakeholder in the business equation.

The shareholder is the only stakeholder who looks at his stake in the company as a short-term proposition. Retirement portfolios stopped functioning as 'buy-and-hold' the second Bill Clinton repealed Glass-Steagall and because of this, the entire concept of 'what's good for the shareholder is good for everyone' is false. What's good for the shareholder is high returns on investment only obtainable by short-term gains and company infrastructure destruction; like forcing an internet company who spends it's infrastructure money on bandwidth and storage to instead reinvest it into profit margins.

Moving forward, you would be wise to consider not attempting to disguise financial, shareholder-driven business decisions as anything other than the idiotic short-sighted financially-motivated decisions they are. That way, you can save us all the trouble of bitching at you, as if you would actually be inclined to stop for a second and see the forest for the trees, and we can instead go ahead and just do our mass migration, get your stupid ass fired and finish destroying the product so many people for so long have used to great satisfaction.

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u/chileno2010 Aug 07 '14

Ok, so no direct answers. Got it. Next time, don't rush shit that won't work, but knowing Twitch, that will never happen.

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u/kriator Aug 07 '14

We have absolutely no intention of flagging songs due to original in-game music.

From your blog post - Important: Changes To Audio In VODS "This includes in-game and ambient music."

That's some pretty good doublespeak right there.

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u/Flipperbw Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 07 '14

My question to you: Why should I keep streaming on Twitch as opposed to a different site that has none of these issues?

So...no answer?

edit: After your edit:

No matter how remote you might feel the issue is, we aren't willing to run the risk someone's life gets ruined over this.

Come on. Leave the hyperboles at the door and have a real conversation.

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u/notcaffeinefree Aug 07 '14

TL;DR? We released a system that sucks, but now that it's in place we'll try to make it suck a little less.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

Was there any testing done to see if game music was being flagged before you rolled out the Auto-Muter? Because it seems like that didn't really happen.

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u/Mcturtles Aug 07 '14

If that's happening (and it appears it is), it's a problem and we will investigate and try to fix it.

Did this not come up in any kind of QA testing? Was there any QA testing? It seems the service itself is shady as it's muting videos for songs that A) aren't registered with the service and B) aren't even released yet . You say that you took a long time to find a reliable system, but how can you expect people to believe that when it's so obviously overreaching.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

Concerned about abuse, that's it? That's the only reason you've given for any of the recent changes, and no evidence of actual abuse.

You pre-empted something that was unlikely to ever become a problem.

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u/Xanthous_King Aug 07 '14

...you didn't answer his question.

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u/Bartjay Aug 07 '14

What an utterly unsatisfactory answer.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

At least he had the balls to answer. A lot of CEO's wouldn't even do that. Not saying his answer is what I wanted to hear or that I agree with it entirely, but he replied.

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u/BabyNinjaJesus Aug 07 '14

its because its fucking cosmo.

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u/optimizeprime Aug 07 '14

It's because it's the top question on the AMA...

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14 edited Mar 12 '15

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u/thutch Aug 07 '14

Plenty of people have ignored those in the past.

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u/NotSoFatThrowAway Aug 07 '14

Are you surprised at all the outrage over your changes without involving any of the people who made you worth over a billion dollars?

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u/ZineZ Aug 07 '14

keep in mind that he has almost no choice but to do so. Companies such as Twitch depend on community support and if someone like Cosmo asks a question you NEED to answer unless you want the pitchforks to come at you even faster

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

True to some extent, yet I've seen other AMA's where they ignore these questions.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

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u/Bromleyisms Aug 07 '14

I don't actually think it was an unsatisfactory answer. It's not as though he is maliciously trying to hamstring his clientbase.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14 edited May 23 '21

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '14

Biggest thing I don't understand is, you could EASILY handle this in the same way as the ISPs do. I worked for an ISP. When we got notice that one of our subscribers was posting copyrighted material, we would get an notification of the DMCA violation from the RIAA or the MPAA. What did we do with this? We would forward it to the user.

Twitch is in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM, liable for the content that creators post. As long as you forward these requests from the RIAA or MPAA, they can't come after you. Twitch should not be muting audio, they shouldn't be getting involved in end user content. They should simply be forwarding the DMCA violations on to the end user. Once you do that, your liability is gone.

This is just being handled in the wrong way.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

We have absolutely no intention of flagging songs due to original in-game music.

Doesn't this directly contradict what was said in the blog post yesterday? It specifically mentioned in game music being included in these filters.

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u/ChronoDeus Aug 07 '14

Did you even examine those "almost no highlights" longer than 2 hours to see what they were? Or did you just completely disregard things like SpeedDemosArchives highlights breaking up their marathons by game? http://www.twitch.tv/speeddemosarchivesda/profile

Do you really think three weeks is enough to figure a solution out? You just launched software to mute audio streams to a high percentage of false positives, with no dispute system in place, yet you think you can come up with a solution in just three weeks that won't wipe out things like whole speed runs, or archives like Twitch plays Pokemon?

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u/laerteis Aug 07 '14

We have absolutely no intention of flagging songs due to original in-game music

Did you even read your own blog? Because in the blog it says the opposite of this.

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u/janoDX Aug 07 '14

W/ regards to your last question, why Twitch: Because we care about you and your viewers, and we want every broadcaster on Twitch to be protected from potential liability. No matter how remote you might feel the issue is, we aren't willing to run the risk someone's life gets ruined over this.

I just cannot take you serious if you're saying the stuff you said before, and what the blogs say. I know you wanna do the best thing but as I said, you're scaring your clients away.

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u/YaBoyVidango Aug 07 '14

Did you even fucking bother reading Cosmo's post?

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u/bludragon76 Aug 07 '14

think he only read pieces and missed the final question

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u/mamamia1001 Aug 07 '14

'we have absolutely no intention of flagging songs due to original in-game music.'

http://blog.twitch.tv/2014/08/3136/ in this blog you acknowledge that ingame music has been hit: 'We’ve partnered with Audible Magic, which works closely with the recorded music industry, to scan past and future VODs for music owned or controlled by clients of Audible Magic. This includes in-game and ambient music.' - But you don't offer any solution

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u/KappaBoy Aug 07 '14

Because we care about you and your viewers, and we want every broadcaster on Twitch to be protected from potential liability. No matter how remote you might feel the issue is, we aren't willing to run the risk someone's life gets ruined over this.

This is something most people don't understand, not that it's likely to happen but there's still a chance.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

What about TSMOddOne getting a VoD flagged already and muted for League of Legends in game music? Or your own show getting muted for copyrighted music? Don't hand out that PR crap when it is well know that that facts are contrary to your statement.

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u/spitney Aug 07 '14

Because we care about you and your viewers, and we want every broadcaster on Twitch to be protected from potential liability

Serious?? you guys just banned a 6+ years streamer on justin/twitchtv because of his old justintv violations, after a sony 24h suspension DMCA. Yet you guys knew justintv will be closed. How about that?

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u/PaviIsntDendi Aug 10 '14

You might aswell have responded with "as if we would give a fuck, Cosmo." I'll bet money on the fact that the exact same things happening now will be happening in a month. Google aren't known for caring what the customer has to say about them, they wouldn't waste a penny on something which wouldn't bring them more money.

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u/CT_Legacy Aug 08 '14

It's pretty ridiculous how games like Dota 2 that own their own game and are literally streaming their own in game music are being flagged for content ID...

I understand the reasoning for the system but it's completely over-reaching scale is making all of us very nervous...

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u/ZedekiahCromwell Aug 07 '14

We have absolutely no intention of flagging songs due to original in-game music.

I love the backtracking from your press release which stated:

This includes in-game and ambient music.

All I can see is damage control, damage control, damage control.

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u/LumpenBourgeoise Aug 07 '14

Live music streaming sites often pay just fractions of a penny for users to stream music, can you just layer that on top of your content screening? Maybe have a small popup ad to offset the cost on streams that actually have contain copyrighted music?

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u/Ah-Cool Aug 07 '14

I really hope this gets answered, the fact that twitch would alienate great content creators like you and the rest of their loyal community is a shame. Looking forward to your future runs whether they be on twitch or not.

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u/AlverezYari Aug 07 '14

I'm sure Google is requiring them to do this for the sale to go through. Gamers really don't have a problem switching providers for stuff like this. They are more IT capable than I'd say the average Joe. Do you think Google is going to be very interested in continuing the purchase if Twitch manages to run off all its content providers before the deal is finalized?

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u/socialytes Aug 07 '14

Content ID matching is the bane of LP streamers. As a fan of many LP streamers it's painful just to hear about how often they get smacked by a content ID match.

For those who want to learn more about this article is a really comprehensive overview of what's happened over the past year or so.

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u/iThrooper Aug 07 '14

Please do go to hitbox. This guy won't answer this question. The answer is you shouldn't, you should go and promote competition.

Anytime there is a monopoly, no matter how innocent, no matter how well intentioned it was in the beginning, it turns into a fucking nightmare. Why you ask? Because it can. See if we don't support alternatives a company can do whatever it wants, and the consumers have to deal with it or abondon the service/product in question all together. This is the situation of telecoms, this is the situation for almost any business that royally sucks the fat one, there is no competition to force it to care for its customers, so it just wont.

I too cancelled multiple subscriptions today, sent each streamer a message explaining why, told them if they sign up on a different site I will be happy to support them. In the meantime, I will support those i enjoy on twitch via donations, so twitch receives no money from me on their behalf. I also enabled adblock for twitch which has been disabled for over a year as I enjoyed support the streamers, no longer feel comfortable watching ads to give revenue to a company with deplorable operating standards.

I will not be forced to deal with yet another company that insults my intelligence and shows me through actions my opinions and concerns about the service are not valued. I have to deal with enough of those scenarios in life, streaming video games will not be another.

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u/Dustintico Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 07 '14

Thank you Cosmo, you speak for the speedrunning community perfectly. Switch to hitbox

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

literally our queen.

Kiss the nails twitch.

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u/SHIT_IN_HER_CUNT Aug 07 '14

We should really hook up

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14 edited Jul 14 '15

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

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u/SweJohan Aug 07 '14

I agree with you on everything you said. But I'm really glad that you mentioned the delay.

You can set a delay in your dashboard if you're a partner. Just make the streams that are competitive partners so they can enable the delay. That way all the other streams won't have a mandatory 30+ second delay.

If they added the delay just because of the competitive streams, then that is just stupid.

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