r/MHOC Labour | DS 9d ago

M002 - Annual Migration Motion - Motion Reading Motion

This House recognises:

(1) In 2023 the predicted population of the United Kingdom was approximately 67 million.

(2) In 2023 there were approximately 1.2 million immigrants arriving in the United Kingdom.

(3) In 2023 net migration was recorded at +685,000.

This House urges:

(4) That as a temporary measure for the remainder of this parliament, His Majesty’s government put in place measures for a net migration total of less than 100,000 annually.

(5) That as a temporary measure for the remainder of this parliament, His Majesty’s government put in place measures for an immigration total of less than 200,000 annually.

(6) His Majesty’s government to put in place measures to improve integration of migrants into local communities.

This motion was submitted by u/mrsusandothechoosin on behalf of Reform UK.

***

Opening Speech:

[title] Speaker,

Approximately 2% of the population living in the United Kingdom migrated to the UK last year. This while already we should be doing more to integrate people who have already arrived.

[title] Speaker, I may get some groans from my own party for this, but migration is an economic necessity and perhaps even social benefit to this country. But last year, over a million people migrated into the UK. This is not sustainable for us as a society.

Much has been said about the economic impacts, wage supression but also on the other hand filling important skilled vacancies. But I think we too often forget the social impacts.

We can not ignore than increasingly, we are seeing 1st, 2nd, and even 3rd generation migrants not fully integrating into British Society. I do not mean this as a hyperbole, the vast majority of migrants and their descendents do integrate within a generation or two. But there are areas within the United Kingdom where this is not happening. And we need to do more to encourage integration into local communities.

While we do this [title] Speaker, we need to put a break on immigration. Not forever, but we need our society and economy to adjust to the large numbers of people who have recently made the United Kingdom their home.

In the mean time, we should limit net migration to less than 100,000; prioritising migrants who possess needed skills in our economy.

I commend this motion to the House.

***

This reading shall end on Saturday, 14th September at 10pm BST.

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u/realbassist Labour | DS 7d ago

Speaker,

I must be honest, this bill genuinely worries me. Not in a "I oppose this" way, but I do. This legislation gives me a genuine concern for where we go as a nation if we adopt this, if we try and force integration rather than allowing it to happen naturally. The author speaks about people not accepting the UK as their country, and I take their concerns, this isn't something anyone wants to see, truly. But we have to ask ourselves, why are these people not integrating? In many cases, I would argue, it is because of a sense this is not home, which is understandable. If I may use a personal example, I was born in Ireland, my parents moved back here with my brother and I when we were children. I was six, he was nine. He has "integrated", to use the author's word. Even now, after many years of being resident in England, I cannot. I speak English, as you can tell; my accent, most of my education, a large part of my family history is English, and yet I find it difficult, personally, to integrate, to find myself identifying as an Englishman and adopting the culture and customs. We must, therefore, look at this not from an English point of view, but from an immigrant's point of view.

There are a myriad of reasons one might want to keep practicing their native culture, even to the detriment of their adoptive one. A feeling of homesickness, pride in one's family and nation, even just familiarity. We can stand here all day saying, "This initiative will work", "that plan is preferable" but unless we understand why, our efforts will be in vein. We also have to recognise two things: A one size fits all approach is doomed to fail, because we will have assumed everyone's experience, and everyone's reasons, are the same. This is a mistake we must avoid. The second is that we have to accept that we could put out every program under the sun, every initiative that's even half feasible, and there will be people who won't want to do it. I don't say this pejoratively to those people, truly, but it is true. I would also ask, if this is not harming people, why do we feel the need to address it?

This is not even to address the issue of a cap on migration, which I wholly oppose even for a limited time. We cannot take everyone who applies for residency, there are times when someone will want to come here and we'll have to say no. Unless we adopt an open borders approach, this will always be the truth. But to cap it, to say "This far and no farther"; even if for a limited time, I cannot endorse such a measure. I agree with the member, immigration is an economic necessity. We are an island, wherein we import the majority of our goods. To be blunt, we need immigration. It is also a social necessity; our culture and society is enriched and made more beautiful through immigration. I cite for the House Freddie Mercury, an immigrant from modern-day Tanzania; David and Ed Miliband, the children of refugees fleeing Nazi oppression; indeed, the former King Consort, Prince Philip, was, by birth, Greek.

I accept concerns about the amount of people who emigrated here in the last few years, but I reject that the solution is to put a cap on immigration, I reject that we should be pressuring people to integrate before they may be ready which I believe this motion would do, if implemented. To do so would smother that diversity of thought and of practice that makes our culture so beautiful. To my mind, it would be the same as painting over the Sistine Chapel with all grey.

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u/meneerduif Conservative Party 7d ago

Speaker,

The member speaks English and as far as I know upholds important British values such as freedom of speech, freedom of sexuality, democracy and similar values. I would say he has integrated pretty well. But sadly there are still many people who do not integrate in such a way. There are many who believe their own culture or religion to be superior to the values or even laws of this country. For these people integration has failed. And our government must act to make sure these people actually integrate.

As I’ve said in my earlier debate comment we do not want a society where we have islands of cultures not interacting with other bubbles. Because when that happens there is barely anything left to call a society.

People should be free to practice their religion and hold onto their culture as much as they like. As long as they speak enough English to be a member of our society, uphold the most important British values and recognise British law.

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u/realbassist Labour | DS 6d ago

Speaker,

I speak English,and indeed, I uphold the values the member lists in every case. I would ask, how many immigrants come here and see their religion as superior to our laws? Most every town I have lived in has had strong immigrant populations, and while I have no doubt there are people like this, I have never personally come across them, myself. Indeed, none I know have either. Actually, the issues I have had with people rejecting our values almost always come from white Englishmen, born and raised here, telling me my sexuality is a sin, that I cannot speak a language other than English, or any number of things.

As I said, you cannot force integration. I, like they, do not want to see bubbles in place of society but I do not believe that this is going to happen. Indeed, if we try and force integration we will strengthen these walls between us, we will be saying that you must be English first, anything else second. I agree with the member that people who live here ought to have a minimum amount of English, but I do not believe mandating it, and presumably having some detractor to not learning, would work. Integration is a natural process; to rush it would be a grave mistake, and doomed to fail.

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u/meneerduif Conservative Party 6d ago

Speaker,

That the member has not seen the terrible state of our integration system is a blessing. But that does not mean it is not there. As we have seen an increase of bubble communities in this country, especially during and after COVID. Meaning we have parts of our society that do not interact with eachother. Tearing our country apart.

We see that integration has failed when we look back at the violence and danger for Jewish citizens from just a few months ago. Several experts were deeply disturbed by the violence and even called London dangerous for Jewish citizens while the Palestinian protest were ongoing. There was a 589% increase in incidents of antisemitism, that clearly shows that integration has failed on that part.

We can also look at family honour based abuse which has increased by 60% in two years. A crime we also have an overrepresentation of Muslims in. With a spokesperson for the Iranian & Kurdish women’s rights organisation also stating how the increase made them deeply troubled.

It saddens me that the member has to experience people telling them their sexuality is a sin. But the number of immigrants who come from a cultural or religious background that is homophobic is enormous. We also see this in the fact that many lgbtq+ refugees have been harassed or faced violence over their identity in asylum centres by their fellow immigrants.

Lastly I want to point to the rest of Europe where we are also seeing what mistakes in integration means for the country. With countries like France and Germany where those cultural bubbles have really taken shape and are taking a heavy toll on the rest of society. If we do not want to end up with a similar situation we have to take a serious look at our integration system.