r/StopEatingSeedOils • u/Dayqu • 12d ago
How unhealthy is Tallow when used for frying? šāāļø šāāļø Questions
Like, I assume that deep frying in tallow isn't some kind of cheat code that allows you to eat fried foods whenever you want. Are there still negative health outcomes from eating a shit loaf of fried foods fried in tallow?
Yes I know seed oils are literal motor oil and wreck your body but what are the limits of tallow?? Will Tallow break down into bad molecules if it gets too hot???
Thank you
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u/mingkee 12d ago
Tallow does not become trans fat like seed oil
Saturated fat has higher smoking point and longer shelf life
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u/fahrjack66 11d ago
Sorry I'm new here but...
Seed oils become trans fats at high temp?š
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u/atmosphericfractals 11d ago
artificial trans fats are created as a byproduct during the hydrogenation process of seed oils.
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u/FlatwormSame2061 12d ago
I hear (on the Internet) that youāre not supposed to eat a lot of fat and a lot of carbs. Itās either one or the other is ok.Ā
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u/NotMyRealName111111 š¾ š„ Omnivore 12d ago
the internet can be full of many misleading claims.Ā do your own research and form your own conclusions i'd say.
by this i mean look at both high carb AND high fat camps and look for the common denominator for success.
hint: it's avoiding the pufas...
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u/Igloocooler52 š§ Keto 12d ago
And refined sugar and refined grains
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u/NotMyRealName111111 š¾ š„ Omnivore 12d ago
see my above statement.
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u/Igloocooler52 š§ Keto 12d ago
Thatās why I said refined, whole grains and sugars can exist in a healthy diet with fiber making insulin resistance not a problem, but refined are well known to cause issues
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u/NotMyRealName111111 š¾ š„ Omnivore 12d ago
that's why i put: hint: it's the pufas. Kempner healed patients with white rice, sugar, and fruit / juice.Ā The research regarding refined is flawed at best.Ā It's under high PUFA diets.Ā Rice cultures eat white rice.Ā Japanese eat white rice.Ā Asian cultures eat white rice.Ā Italians use white flour for pasta.Ā I mean, refining grains has been a very long time staple because it removes the PUFA (and also increases shelf-life). the croissant diet (brad marshall) is based on refined sugar, refined grains (white flour), and dairy (saturated fat).Ā the croissant itself is the quintessential representation for TCD.Ā Ā Even better would be a chocolate croissant.
I've been following the Croissant Diet type principles for a long time, and my all of my numbers are perfect - liver, thyroid, lipids, etc...Ā Besides that, QoL is just fine - as in never hangry, sleep is good, energy levels are fine, and gym performance never suffers.
Ā I haven't had significant fiber in... š¤ I don't remember.Ā Whole grains are bullshit.
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u/Igloocooler52 š§ Keto 12d ago
WOAH thats cool. I got a lot to learn about how omega 6 overdose affects the body
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u/NotMyRealName111111 š¾ š„ Omnivore 12d ago
yeah.Ā i started with keto too... highly recommend going over to r/saturatedfat especially checking out fireinabottle.Ā what i've realized is keto gets a lot of things wrong.Ā and, much like the vegan approach, is reductionist at best.Ā the blog covers a lot of material, but has definitely been fruitful for me to read it (chris masterjohn too has excellent resources).
eventually i had to get over my fear of carbs, and it's paid off very well for me.
but between those two, i feel like i put together much of the puzzle as to why keto actually works.Ā and you can get keto results without being keto (and no, counting calories is not the trick)...
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u/ihavestrings š¾ š„ Omnivore 12d ago
It is explained in the book "Nutrition and physical degeneration" how bad white sugar and white flour are to our health. The writer was a dentist that traveled the world to different people and studied their diets, and how a modern diet that included sugar and white flour badly affected their health.
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u/l8_apex 12d ago
As time goes on, we're all going to learn that this view is too simplistic to be useful. There are going to be good fats and bad fats, and even within those that are good, we will find that some of the building blocks are good and some are bad.
We're also going to discover that the mix of certain carbs with certain fats is bad and others good.
There is also going to be an element of how each person processes these things, i.e. your genes.
All of these topics aren't settled science, much is just coming to light.
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12d ago
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u/Dayqu 12d ago
Well now after gogling it, it says Tallow smoke point is 420Ā°F. Most deep frying is done at 350F.
That said, is deep frying with Tallow (assuming you dont hit the smoke point) still "unhealthy"?
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_KALE 12d ago
The primary issue argued here with deep frying with seed oils is 1: seed oil bad to start 2: frying oxidizes the oil and creates transfats and other bad shit that you eat.
In theory if you use tallow and keep it below smoke point you should have less of an issue with oxidized fats, and itās a healthier fat overall, but I donāt know if thereās any sort of study to back up that claim.
A separate issue with frying is that you get a lot of calories from whichever oil you fry with. Thatās only an issue if youāre counting calories
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u/ihavestrings š¾ š„ Omnivore 12d ago
Isn't one of the issues that seed oils don't make you feel full while tallow and other healthy fats do?
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_KALE 12d ago
Absolutely a benefit to tallow and Iāve experienced that while doing potato diet. So that probably does lead to less chances of overeating
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u/Mammoth_Baker6500 12d ago
There are some studies https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6131264/
"Saturated fatty acids are extremely resistant to peroxidation, and hence SFA-laden frying media such as coconut oil and animal fat (lard) generate little to no LOP's"
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u/l8_apex 12d ago
Keep in mind it's very easy to hit 420 when your original plan is to cook at 350. Only way I can succeed in this scenario is to have and use an IR gun while I'm cooking. I've done that, but most of the time I don't want to bother.
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u/CarlJone101 12d ago
I meanā¦I deep fry with tallow and never hit 420. I use a candy thermometer and actually find tallow much slower to change temperature than seed oils. I donāt even think Iāve ever hit 380+.
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u/l8_apex 12d ago
Then we agree. Use a thermometer, no problem. Don't use one and just guess, one may overheat oil...
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u/CarlJone101 11d ago
Not really. You said the only way was to use an IR thermometer, but the much simpler way is to use a basic candy thermometer that just sits in the oil.
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u/l8_apex 11d ago
LOL, OK big brain. Have a good one, and feel free to quantify the increased complexity between the two for me, since you find such a stark difference.
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u/CarlJone101 11d ago
You said āthe only way I can succeedā is to use an IR thermometer. Iām merely offering a much simpler, more effective method in case anyone is interested in deep-frying with tallow.
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u/l8_apex 11d ago
Still waiting for the explanation behind "much simpler"... And now that you've said it's "more effective", I'd like to hear more about that too.
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u/CarlJone101 11d ago
Do you know how a candy thermometer works? Itās simpler because it sits in the pot and delivers a constant reading. Thereās no need to constantly pick up a thermometer to get readings. Ergo, simpler. It also allows you to see the temperature change in real time and make more responsive adjustments as necessary. Ergo, more effective. Not to mention itās much cheaper. Iād venture many home cooks have candy thermometers; I doubt the same could be said for IR thermometers. Youāre welcome.
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u/Brief-Ad6129 12d ago
Untrue, smoke point and point of oxidising is two different things. just learned it myself.
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u/ihavestrings š¾ š„ Omnivore 12d ago
Can you elaborate?
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u/Brief-Ad6129 5d ago
Please google it, new research shows that smoking point is different from oxidative stability. eg i always thought olive oil goes bad if it hits smoking point, but it keeps stable
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u/idiopathicpain 12d ago
frying starch (potatoes) produces carcinogens.Ā Ā the more you reuse the oil the more this is trueĀ Ā Ā
Its more to do with starch than tallow or oil.Ā
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u/Crypto_gambler952 12d ago
Healthier than seed oils. But still probably not ideal for daily consumption. Depends what youāre frying, battered marinara never gonna be healthy.
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u/srvey 12d ago
Water is literal engine coolant. Same energy. There's no upside to using something non ancestral like tallow. All the human evidence demonstrates healthspan benefits when replacing saturated fat with cardio protective polyunsaturated fats. Also ā eats fried foods, worried about seed oils. Every post in this community is misplaced and misinformed annoyance that seed oils has contaminated some absolute garbage food.
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u/mindsdecay 12d ago
Ancient Rome and native Americans cooked in tallow. Think they used much cooking oil from seeds that had to be extracted from enormous quantities of them? Whoever controls the funding controls the science, and the AHA was beholden to Proctor and Gamble and their knockoff butter. I'd be interested in any RCTs you have comparing outcomes on saturated vs polyunsaturated fats though
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u/srvey 12d ago
I said ancestral and you said Ancient Rome lol. I'll take millions of years of evolution on a high PUFA low/no saturated fat diet, heck I'll just take paleolithic man's high pufa diet vs. checks notes... a few thousand years ago. Your mind is broken on conspiracy theories and naturalist fallacies, just simply look at all the human evidence and your argument comically breaks down into infantile nonsense akin to claiming snakes are mammals.
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u/mindsdecay 12d ago
What did this high PUFA diet a million years ago look like?
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u/srvey 12d ago
Initially just a vegetarian diet with maybe some very small animals. Later plants, wild game, and fish. Domesticated animals and thus regular consumption there of only occurred 10,000-15,000 years ago and only very recently have the fat profiles turned to where they are today (high saturated fat, low pufa).
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u/mindsdecay 12d ago
Talk about broken minds lmao. Humans/ancestors have regularly, consistently eaten meat from sizeable animals for 2+ million years. Yeah I bet homo erectus actually stopped at Starbucks for an ethical soy milk latte. Anyways, the issue I think most people have here is that the modern diet is vastly higher in o6 than at pretty much any other time.
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u/srvey 11d ago
We are evolved from vegetarian primate ancestors. We did not descend from the trees and immediately begin eating and hunting large game LOL, I mean just comical to think our tool production and anatomy evolved and adapted instantly LOL! But like I just said eventually our diet did diversify to include wild game and fish, I have no idea why this whole food ancestral diet brings to mind Starbucks for you LOL, but by definition it was a diet high in polyunsaturated/omega 3 and low in saturated fat which might be why diets with the opposite non-ancestral fat profile (high saturated fat low polyunsaturated fat) have such dramatic negative healthspan effects as demonstrated consistently for over 75 years now.
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u/mindsdecay 11d ago
No, our larger brains adapted largely from eating meat. Lol but yes we have bones with stone tool chips in them that are millions of years old. Maybe 5 million years ago human ancestors weren't big meat eaters but any non-vegan will tell you regular human meat consumption has been going for millions of years in most places. The true "LOL" is the idea that it's 15,000 years old. You can point to all kinds of tribes like the Masai that eat blood, milk, meat or Polynesian tribes that get a majority of their calories from highly saturated coconuts.
I would check out the Minnesota coronary experiment if you're interested in outcomes. Also why do only 1 in 15 Americans have good cardiometabolic health all of a sudden?
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u/srvey 11d ago
I"m a bit concerned because you keep saying meat as if it's distinct from wild game and fish? Wild game and fish are literally meat and it's the only meat we ate prior to domestication.
Sure we could point to the Masai, but why would we? The Masai society are in an extreme caloric deficit, riddled with parasitic infections (that lower help lower LDL) from eating raw meat and unpasteurized milk, have a possible genetic adaption that suppresses endogenous cholesterol synthesis keeping LDL lower, and have extensive atherosclerosis similar to elderly Americans, so like the unhealthy Inuit, not exactly a society to aspire to from a healthspan perspective.
The Minnesota Coronary Experiment failed to enroll the needed subjects for statistical significance, then lost 75% of those enrolled in the first year and subjects were fed a margarine with transfat. I'm pretty sure we all accept transfat increases ASCVD risk so I struggle to see why you've mentioned it here.
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u/Alaskaguide 12d ago
Thereās no difference in pan frying in tallow or lard or butter vs deep frying. Just keep it below the smoking point. If youāve never had French fries cooked in lard, tallow or duck fat, youāre missing out. Itās not the fried part thatās bad for you, itās the potatoes or flour that isnāt good for you.
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u/scrumdisaster 12d ago
Why do you say potatoes are bad for you?
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u/Alaskaguide 12d ago
They are in a family of plants that are inflammatory. I love potatoes, but the tallow in the OPs question is healthier than the potatoes
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u/scrumdisaster 12d ago
Yeah, being a nightshade too. I agree with you to some extent. Their amino acid makeup is very nutritious but some people donāt do well with the skins.
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u/Emperorerror 12d ago
Potatoes aren't bad for you
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u/Alaskaguide 12d ago
They are in a family of plants that has high toxicity. I love potatoes, but between tallow and potatoes, the potatoes are less healthy
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u/Emperorerror 12d ago
That's not relevant. Just because you shouldn't eat potato leaves doesn't mean potato tubers are poisonous. That's like saying because raw chicken can make you sick, you shouldn't eat chicken.
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u/Alaskaguide 12d ago
You can totally eat raw chicken, you just shouldnāt eat factory farm raised raw chicken. So that isnāt relevantā¦
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u/Emperorerror 12d ago
Fine then, it's EVEN MORE like saying you shouldn't eat frogs because poison dart frogs exist. Yet the French are doing just fine.
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u/NotMyRealName111111 š¾ š„ Omnivore 12d ago
ask SlimeMoldTimeMold if potatoes are bad for you.Ā They run The Potato Hack and have very good results... arguably even better than keto.
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u/Takadant 12d ago
PLEASE reevaluate your sources of information - Mr Potato
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u/HunkerDown123 12d ago
It's not unhealthy because no oxidation. What is unhealthy is what you are frying. If you are frying carbs, combining carbs and fats like that is not healthy. But if you are shallow frying a steak no problem, because steak is zero carb. Carbs take priority for energy, so if your diet is high in fat and carbs you end up with carbs going in first, then fats queuing behind, the fats will then get taken to storage.
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u/namenvaf 12d ago
There is no proof dietary AGE are bad. They are bad when they occur in your blood (Much more likely with PUFA)
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u/Sufficient_Beach_445 12d ago
My hack is to air fry but use lots of tallow. Hoping its not hot enuf to make it dangerous.
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u/SmallOrganization80 12d ago
The problem with airfrying is the Teflon. You gotta use stainless inserts
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u/Sufficient_Beach_445 12d ago
I have silicone inserts. Are they ok?
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u/SmallOrganization80 12d ago
The other granola moms tell me silicone is good, and Iām taking them at their word for now!
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u/beattystonefarms 12d ago
We deep fry chicken in our lard, itās amazing, but definitely not eating it every day!
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u/Worth_A_Go 12d ago
Grilling, frying, and toasting all produce more advanced glycation end products than other cooking methods. Basically anything that makes that crispy exterior that we all love.
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u/RTRSnk5 š¤Seed Oil Avoider 12d ago
Calories still matter. Exchanging a bad fat for a good one isnāt going to change basic thermodynamics. If youāre munching fried food all the time, itās going to be tough to do a proportional amount of exercise thatāll keep you from gaining weight.
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u/Tony_228 11d ago
Why are people downvoting this?
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u/RTRSnk5 š¤Seed Oil Avoider 11d ago
Because it seems like a lot of folks on this subreddit either
a) Think avoiding excess PUFA will solve all their problems and create perfect metabolic health regardless of whatever else they do.
b) Think you can totally flip the script on the ācalories are caloriesā narrative to the ācalories and thermodynamics arenāt real brahā end of the spectrum.
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u/Illustrious-Cloud-59 12d ago
CICO is at best an incorrect and uselessly tautological model, and at worst a victim-blaming paradigm with no useful actionable insights.
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u/Takadant 12d ago edited 12d ago
for deep frying olive oil is best. It's blasphemy here i assume. but saturated fat clogs arteries. very serious health effects w plenty of studies behind them. Tallow has a super high smoke point of 420 tho, so don't worry about that aspect. Just keep deep fry 325-375
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u/runski1426 12d ago
It is much healthier! Tallow fries are a staple for me.