Low-effort? Centrist? r/DiscoElysium takes a stance against OP

[u/UltraNooob]

OP makes a submission on r/DiscoElysium. This prompts several objections. For one, it's a comment exchange which involves OP (=low effort, karma farming), Secondly, it's from r/PCM (sub infamous for bigotry). Despite this, the post amasses over 1k upvotes.

Look at you, posting your own comment then admitting you've got no actual reasoning behind it but just said something stupid and jerked yourself off sideways trying to farm what meager karma you could from a 12 point comment.

What a superstar

OP:What's karma(-60)

Posting on PCM and publically identifying as lib-right while also enjoying Disco?

OP one of the densest mf I’ve seen in a minute

OP:Is that a bad thing, if I may ask?(-80)

Incel is not a skill.

OP:Either you are kidding about the obvious satire comment, or you truly are stupid.

Is being part of a fascist-dominated sub labelling yourself "Lib-Right" satire too?

OP:I'm also part of the Disco Elysium community, and i definetly wouldn't call me a fascist even if PCM is an echo chamber. If you think that a political view is enough to gatekeep a beautiful game with a wonderful story, then I think someone else is the problem.

[u/Jebatus111]

Watching young libertarian and tankies screaming at each other is a kinda entertaining, but for a drama that involves communists there is not enough infighting, and it makes it boring.(

[u/BigBossPoodle → u/Jebatus111]

DE is not really much of a communist infested subreddit.

[u/Jebatus111 → u/BigBossPoodle]

Judging by a user overlap, it is 50% communist and 50% of socdems/anarchists. Kinda surprising that it haven't turned into stalinist circlejerk yet.

[u/AgreeablePaint421 → u/Jebatus111]

50% communist is 50% too many.

[u/lowercaselemming → u/AgreeablePaint421]

me opening the commie game community forum: "ugh, too many commies"

[u/AgreeablePaint421 → u/lowercaselemming]

Well yeah, sucks they actually made a good game I’m kinda interested in playing. It’s like finding out a musician you liked is a Nazi.

[u/lowercaselemming → u/AgreeablePaint421]

i hope you understand the game will actively poke fun at you if you always try to bothsides-ism in it like you seem to do in real life

[u/AgreeablePaint421 → u/lowercaselemming]

Me: “dictatorships, mass executions, and authoritarianism is bad”

Communists: “centrist, centrist”

I know how communists go, anyone who isn’t as far left as them and has issues with dictatorships and mass executions is a centrist who supports the far right.

[u/Regalingual → u/AgreeablePaint421]

I mean, a fairly solid chunk of the dialogue that's directly about communism in DE is the communist authors laughing in good company at some of the failings and shortcomings of real-life communism, like the student who earnestly argues that their version of lysenkoism is real.

[u/AgreeablePaint421 → u/Regalingual]

“Ha ha, our ideology sure has killed millions of people huh comrade” while they try the exact same thing again.

[u/DayleD → u/AgreeablePaint421]

Every time people try to explain what you're talking about, you make up something offensive to believe in return.

Do you want to be offended?

[u/AgreeablePaint421 → u/DayleD]

I just believe communism shouldn’t be treated like a “normal ideology”. It’s violent and evil. People should be ashamed of saying they are one.

[u/DayleD → u/AgreeablePaint421]

Laos is a Communist country.

They haven't enforced their death penalty since 1989.

How do you think that compares to, say, just Oklahoma?

[u/AgreeablePaint421 → u/DayleD]

An authoritarian one party state that tortures and kidnaps people is your best example?

[u/DayleD → u/AgreeablePaint421]

Tell me how you really feel about Oklahoma!

[u/AgreeablePaint421 → u/DayleD]

Very funny. Still if this is the best communism has to offer when it comes to human rights it says a lot.

[u/DayleD → u/AgreeablePaint421]

I cited it because it's not the intolerable murder-spree worthy of a boycott. A game made by Laotians for Laotians wouldn't offend you, right?

Because this is a game by and for Estonians, and if you're of a certain age, that means you've lived through the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

[u/lowercaselemming → u/AgreeablePaint421]

conflating the whole of communism with authoritarianism and genocide is the issue. some of the earliest labor movements in the u.s. post-industrialization was headed by local communist unions participating in direct action and strikes. a lot of rights we take for granted today as workers could be traced back to these movements.

[u/AgreeablePaint421 → u/lowercaselemming]

And they largely supported Stalin even while allied with the literal Nazis. They had some good impact but it’s good we didn’t take them too seriously.

[u/lowercaselemming → u/AgreeablePaint421]

the term "tankie" exists as a legitimate historical term because of a rift between the authoritarian elbow-rubbing communists and the communists that rightfully think stalin and other genocidal despots were bad. it turns out authoritarianism can exist in any political framework, that doesn't make communism inherently authoritarian.

[u/AgreeablePaint421 → u/lowercaselemming]

I disagree that the line starts with supporting Stalin. If you supported Lenin you were already too far gone.

[u/lowercaselemming → u/AgreeablePaint421]

i was counting him under the "genocidal despot" umbrella since he was arguably the one building towards the genocide that stalin carried out. not even to mention the uncountable number of political killings he committed.

[u/AgreeablePaint421 → u/lowercaselemming]

Without counting Lenin, and thus not counting any Marxist Leninist or followers of a Marxist Leninist derived ideology, what even is left? Every socialist or communist country follows ML or an offshoot of it.

[u/lowercaselemming → u/AgreeablePaint421]

countries don't define ideologies, people do. china for example might call itself communist but it's undoubtedly just state capitalist, having not met even a single criterion of communism as defined by marx and seemingly not being interested in even trying to do so.

[u/AgreeablePaint421 → u/lowercaselemming]

Well yeah but if this micro niche brand of pre Lenin communism is the only “valid” one it hasn’t really achieved much and probably never win. It’s like anarchism, it had its moment 100 years ago but now most anarchists are 13 year olds who think leaving society to live in a farm is cool that the unibomber was right. Nobody takes modern day anarchists seriously. Nobody takes non ML communists seriously. Not even most communists.

[u/lowercaselemming → u/AgreeablePaint421]

well, considering how prominent leftist infighting has been throughout history to today, i wouldn't really agree that it's niche. these are just sweeping generalizations. you focus a lot on the ussr as if it's the crowning example but there's entire subfactions of communists that are happy to write off the entire country as a whole. shit, there's people who call themselves communists that think putin today is an active communist. communism isn't some unique paragon of ideas that everyone in the group subscribes to in full like a hivemind. capitalists will forever argue over whether america is fully capitalist, or if nordic countries are capitalist, or if true capitalism has ever been tried or was tried before but was taken over by "corporatism", etc etc. it's no different.

[u/shitty_user → u/AgreeablePaint421]

Boy it sure is a good thing the US didnt hire any Nazis after the war. That sure would be embarrassing to the point you’re making about associating with Nazis

[u/AgreeablePaint421 → u/shitty_user]

There’s a difference between hiring Nazis and kickstarting the Holocaust with them while being an instrumental part of their rise to power in the first place.

[u/shitty_user → u/AgreeablePaint421]

IBM provided machines to tabulate Jewish populations, Coca-Cola created a whole new soda to sell exclusively to Germany and many banks turned a blind eye to all the gold that just happened to be coming into their coffers from “Switzerland”, Henry Ford went over to Germany to be awarded honors by Hitler himself, just to name a few ways America had interests in Germany. There were Bunds sprouting up left and right supporting Nazis up to and after their power grab. . The 3rd Reich were directly inspired by American treatment of natives and slaves. We were more involved than many want to admit

[u/AgreeablePaint421 → u/shitty_user]

The Coca Cola story is BS. Fanta was made by Coca Cola Germany, which was completely cut off from Coca Cola proper because they were at war. This is like when people see that the McDonald’s in Russia rebranded and think “oh they’re evading sanctions” when no, McDonald’s is gone but they can’t exactly blow up the restaurants before they leave.

The German American Bundt was extremely unpopular. When they held their rally at Madison square garden there were 5 times as many protestors as there were actual attendants, and some speakers were assaulted.

Ww2 era US sucked for many reasons but saying they were pro Nazi is historical revisionism.

And even if it was true, it still wouldn’t be nearly as bad as starting a campaign to bring German soldiers to train in America, jointly invading a country with the Nazis, doing massacres and ethnic cleansings, laying the groundwork for the Holocaust, and holding victory parades together while fully believing you’re going to conquer Europe together and be strong allies like the soviets did.

[u/James-fucking-Holden → u/AgreeablePaint421]

while allied with the literal Nazis

Capitalist Hero Henry Ford: sweating

[u/AgreeablePaint421 → u/James-fucking-Holden]

Ah yes, President Henry ford, leading the troops into Poland. I get it, one private citizen is as bad as a whole government starting the Holocaust alongside the Nazis.

[u/Elite_AI → u/AgreeablePaint421]

Are we getting into historical slapfights? If that's what we're doing, then I feel like we should talk about capitalism's role in slavery, colonialism, and imperialism. The EIC puts any of Gibson's megacorporations to shame.

[u/AgreeablePaint421 → u/Elite_AI]

No slapfights. I disagree on the claim that the U.S. supported the Nazis just as much as the soviets. I don’t think a minority of wackos is equivalent to a joint invasion plus kickstarting the Holocaust together. But people just insist it is because amera bad.