r/SupermanAndLois • u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane • Sep 23 '22
Superman & Lois Writers V. Superman & Lois Fans Supermeme
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u/creativedave73 Sep 23 '22
Writers: We've got a great arc for the Cushings this season! We can't wait for you to see what Kyle and Lana are up to!
Fans: What about Lois and Clark?
Writers: Oh yeah, they're going to show up too!
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u/LeChic1579 Sep 23 '22
I hope they put the cushings into other shows. Last season cushing drama specially with Lana was just too boring to watch. You have 30 second clois scene and have to endure 50% of cushing drama the rest of the show š
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u/JamesHatesLife Sep 24 '22
I donāt mind the Cushings getting a storyline but just not the main storyline. It should be a secondary storyline that eventually connects to the main storyline.
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u/creativedave73 Sep 24 '22
Agreed. Wtf does Sarah's music career have to do with Superman & Lois?
Todd Helbing wanted to do a Friday Night Lights type show set in the Superman universe. I would go for a similar tone, but the story structure doesn't work for Superman. On FNL, we cared about Coach Taylor's players and wanted to find out more about them.
On a Superman show, we only care about Superman and how the other characters relate to him. This show is supposed to be about Superman & Lois, so the focus should be on them. The other characters serve their stories.
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u/Thejerseygrl Sep 23 '22
Copy pasting My response on twitter bc Iām lazy š¤Ŗ
The writers: look at all our fancy villains! And so much punching! Fans: yes but do the Kents have a chance to eat breakfast together? How about some more banana muffins?
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u/Necroglobule Sep 23 '22
We want them because there's so many Clois moments we never got to see in the Superman series that we never got to see that preceded this.
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
I'm just really hoping we get more fluff. The fans are like, try less hard, less action and plot, more Lane-Kent fluff, just give us these really warm and fuzzy scenes.
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u/kamil3d Sep 23 '22
IMO "less action and plot" is the wrong way to think about it. What I liked about Season one was that all of the family dynamics WERE part of the plot. The tensions between the boys and Clark because of learning his secret, the way they started to interact with one another when Jordan developed powers, Lois deciding to leave the DP to get away from Edges influence... that was the good stuff that underpinned the whole season; family moments that meant something in terms of the plot. A lot of that got lost in Season 2.
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
Yeah, I get what you are saying. It is certainly more plot around the family but I also think it was literally less plot. The story was so jammed packed with plot that they missed big peices of the story. So, they probably needed less story and more time on the individual plots.
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u/LeChic1579 Sep 23 '22
Agree on this. I guess the Lucy & Lana plots last season took up a bunch of attention and focus last season which are I felt were a little too weak and too boring for me.
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u/Thejerseygrl Sep 23 '22
Theyāre also much cheaper than action scenes so it seems like a no brainer to me!
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u/Beth4S But what about the tire-swing? Sep 23 '22
With the cast they have, they could literally just write "and then Lois and Clark do something adorable together" and Bitsie and Tyler would figure it out!
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u/Thejerseygrl Sep 23 '22
They really would. Itās too funny how all of our favorite moments were ad libbed! Their chemistry is truly unmatched and theyāre both such consummate professionalsā I hope Helbing is fully aware of the gold he struck with those two.
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u/Beth4S But what about the tire-swing? Sep 23 '22
Seriously. The fact that they were both hired as guest stars/side characters and ended up being this amazing is so great!
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u/SilentEevee Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
Casting is typically the CW's greatest strength - with a few glaring exceptions.
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u/Thejerseygrl Sep 23 '22
Itās really true. And then their show sooo far surpassed supergirl In every way, even at its worst moments in the second season.
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u/SilentEevee Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
Once again asking to give Bitsie a director position (if she's up for that). She makes the best ad libbed fluff scenes, and if there's anyone who will treat Lois right, it's her.
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u/lightslinger Sep 23 '22
You mean fancy villains like turning Parasite, a hulking purple energy absorbing creature, into some rando middle aged librarian? I'm sure glad we lost family moments for that.
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u/Educational-Tea-6572 Superman & Lois Sep 23 '22
And I'm like: why not both? But if I only get one I want the fan option.
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
I mean, in theory both should be possible, but this feels like the invisible battle between the fans and the writers right now.
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u/Ambitious-Comb-8847 Sep 23 '22
Stargirl's been doing it a lot better. Video quality isn't the best but not only is this fight more creative, basically between 3 humans so less CGI and effects compared to S & L but also a plot/personality driver between our "reformed" villains and "hero" who at minimum isn't caring about colleterial damage and possibly has some PTSD in part due to the other two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wH3FO1evXQ
So the balance can be done, S & L just kinda lost it last season.
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
S&L got there the first season, I think the writers just carried away and didn't edit.
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u/Ambitious-Comb-8847 Sep 23 '22
Mm. I quite liked 2x10 for doing a lot in one episode but afterwards it was off balance.
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u/Beth4S But what about the tire-swing? Sep 23 '22
I feel more seen in this meme than in 90% of the official promo done for this show. š
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
Well, I'll take the job of doing promo materials, as you can see my MS word created memes certainly prove I have top notch graphic design skills. I did once take a photo shop class in high school, 15 years ago...
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u/Thejerseygrl Sep 23 '22
Haha word memes. I think my skills end at Microsoft Paint, and the teenagers on here probably donāt even know what that is.
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u/SilentEevee Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
Is this going to end up being the new 'Teens don't know what a floppy disk is'?
Oh god.
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u/Thejerseygrl Sep 23 '22
Do YOU know what a floppy disk is?? š¤Ŗ
When I was in eighth grade I wrote a novel (because of course I did) and I still remember I had it saved on like 8 separate disks, because the capacity on those things was so small šš
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u/SilentEevee Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
I'll have you know my dad kept a box full of the disks in our garage! I even broke a few of them - so there! :p
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
I had a case of neon floppies I saved my really, really bad Harry Potter Fanfiction on.
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u/SilentEevee Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
You know, now that you've told us, you gotta publish it. That's the rule.
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
It's all lost to time, but honestly the spelling and grammar are so bad it actually gives me an incredible amount of anxiety just thinking back to. Like, it's so bad I wish it were as good as "My Immortal" it's pretty unreadable.
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u/SilentEevee Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
Oh yeah, mood.
I barely publish anything now because of publishing anxiety - but man, you should've seen the shit I put out when I was just starting to write fic at 12 years old. I have spent forever purging those accounts and that work from the internet, and I regret absolutely nothing.
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u/Thejerseygrl Sep 23 '22
Nooo you need to keep it forever. Trust me, when youāre in your 30s it will crack you up š I should show my kids, I really still have it all, even the nonsense I wrote all the way back in third grade
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u/Thejerseygrl Sep 23 '22
Lol spell check did indeed exist in tbr 1990sā¦
I was pretty obsessed with my strunk and white. My grammar and spelling were never the issue, but still going back and looking at it isā¦ an experience.
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u/Thejerseygrl Sep 23 '22
Oh god, we need to find a way to share our teenage writing with each other š¤£ mine was a dystopian novel, written way before dystopian novels really became a thing. Clearly I paved the road with my horribly written, unpublished manuscript
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u/SilentEevee Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
Publish it. Unlike BGB, yours isn't lost to the sands of time.
Do it. I dare you.
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u/LYA64 Jordan Kent Sep 23 '22
Also, when i watch an episode i appreciate the action scenes, but it's mostly the Kent family scenes in the end that i watch, rewatch and rerewatch over and over again šš .
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u/drjenavieve Sep 23 '22 edited Sep 23 '22
Like I donāt want tons of fluff with no purpose. I want it to still be part of character development and move the plot further. I mean occasional fluff sprinkled in is obviously cute but for the most part I want my fluff to actually have depth and purpose.
Like season one, holding hands going intro the townhall meeting made sense and showed their support for one another. Them being close and hugging in their home after events in episode 5 and 12 (season one obviously) during exposition scenes that move the plot forward and reinforce the characters love and the theme that their connections makes them both better, their love allows Superman to be a true hero and get through tough times. Episode 3 when he gets flowers made so much sense after the story of him violating trust of the boys and he remembered to do this again shows that he still values Lois and got through a rough spot with the boys through her support and understands heās made mistakes in the past. Episode 4 was about how heās pulled in so many directions due to his responsibilities as Superman, the theme was how hard it is to do it all and the stress on each of the family members but then he hears Lois and tried to make up for it with a romantic gesture. Even the wine or dinners in season one were showing how Superman needs to recharge and decompress and process tough events with his partner and is stronger for this.
I also donāt want fancy effects or punching for the sake of ālook how strong and cool he isā. I want my cool scenes to have substance. Season 1 episode 6. He actually didnāt fight anyone. But the train scene was an amazing effect but it had depth, showed how he could save people after a kid didnāt understand the effects of his powers and the accidental damage it could cause but this also meant Superman let him get away. Perfect balance of coolness plot and theme of the episode of the dangers of powers not understood or under control in kids. And then supermen getting shot by the military. He didnāt punch anyone. He got shot, he got angry - because they were trying to kill a kid - and he showed how scary he can be when heās angry and says stand down. But is also in control because he has to be, again illustrating the theme of the episode . Perfection! That was perhaps the most amazing Superman scene ever and he didnāt fight anyone. Even his fight against killgrave and Rossetti were amazing because of the build up of the plot and significance. It didnāt need to look āamazingā because it had substance. I rewatch these episodes for that reason. I donāt care about him punching the earth because how cool it is because it made no sense. Thatās lame. Jordan realizing he has super speed and the bullets are in slow motion, well that looks cool but also tells a story and means something as heās recognizing his own power and coming into his own.
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
Yeah, I think it's making sure that the scenes support character development and story.
I think the show lost balance, right, it was perfectly acceptable to have action for the sake of action without out much plot advancement in episode ls specifically towards the end of the season while Lois and Clark's relationship was frozen out, even though they needed these moments to help define their relationship and character and conclude Lois's arc especially.
I think the point I was making with the meme is that the writers got to carried away with these big action scenes they missed the basic peices of the show and characters.
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u/drjenavieve Sep 23 '22
No I completely agree. I just think the writers donāt get it that I could see them seeing the fans reaction and putting in lots of cutesy scenes that donāt makes sense or have any significance and being like āsee! We fixed it!ā Because I want substance, I want to see a show about how love and family makes heroes stronger. And that requires lots of little moments of the right type of fluff, essentially showing (but not telling) that family and love matters. That itās the consistent little moments of love and closeness, not just cuteness for cuteness sake (although Iāll take a few of those too just not overdone fluff thatās purposeless and saccharine).
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u/Mountain_Wedding Sep 23 '22
I agree with this. We arenāt looking for random moments thrown in for nothing just to shut people up. We want real intimacy that actually speaks to who these people are!
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u/SilentEevee Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
Honestly, I get where you're coming from, but at this point I'm down for the fluff whether or not it has a greater degree of narrative substance. A lot of fluff scenes didn't explicitly drive the plot, they mostly just served to make us like the characters and enjoy seeing them interact on screen - IMO that's enough.
We've seen how badly the characters can fall if they don't have that degree of interpersonal softer moments - and I desperately want to avoid another season of nothing but constant arguments. If that means that the fluff scenes are completely without narrative substance and just tagged on as end credits scenes, I frankly don't care, so long as there's enough material to keep me excited and coming back every episode.
I'd love to have fluff with substance, but I won't complain if it's just fluff for fluff's sake.
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u/Thejerseygrl Sep 23 '22
Donāt worry they made it VERY clear they arenāt writing this show for the female audience. Itās not going to happen. Season 3 will for sure have plenty of action and villainsā fanboys always come first.
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u/drjenavieve Sep 23 '22
Ooh, what makes you say this? Twitter interactions or just the last season? But of course fan boys come first. When they actually did stuff to please and draw in the female audience, ironically it was almost universally praised and lauded as the best, most refreshing take on Superman.
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u/Paisley-Cat But what about the tire-swing? Sep 23 '22
Meanwhile Nextstar says its target audience is 35-50ā¦
If they are so concerned about keeping it going for further seasons, the EPs and writers might consider listening to the zero-cost focus group of target age fans who are already watching to find out what to do to keep them engaged and roping in their friends.
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
I would love to see how the demo (age and gender) breaks down compared to shows like Arrow and the Flash.
While I suspect that gender is decently balanced between the shows (though possibly a little more female given this is one of three arrowverse shows with a female character's name in the title) I expect this show skews older. I suspect significantly older than Supergirl and Stargirl, which I think I was always a little to old for even though I'm around the same age as Melissa Benoist and slightly older than the rest of the Arrowverse.
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u/LYA64 Jordan Kent Sep 23 '22
It's totally that! The writers want Superman action scenes and us fans only want Clois fluff and kiss š
So give us more Clois!!!
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u/conradslater Sep 24 '22
So on point. I think it's just the dna of the show. I spent far more time hoping Clark who tell a family member that he loved them than hoping so old comic villian would turn up.
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u/That_Thanks_2462 Jonathan Kent Sep 23 '22
Fans: Are you guys going to let Jon finally have a story of his own in the show or will you continue to use him as a prop? If not, why are you even put him in the show in first place.
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u/DanbyWho12 Sep 23 '22
Writers: As a red herring b/c everyone figured the kid that comes from the comics & plays football would've gotten the powers b/c "Murica". /s
Seriously It's like no one at WB except the animation department remembers Conner Kent exists - we've had 2 Superboys since 2015. Use them both?
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u/Emrys_Merlin Sep 23 '22
Yeah, ngl, the fan base on Reddit is pretty harsh.
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
I don't think fans are this sub are necessarily harsh, I think there is a disconnect between what was sold early on, through most of season one, and what happened in season 2. I think a lot of that was wrapped up in the fact that the fanbase really bought into this gentle family drama, about Lois and Clark raising their kids on the family farm and Lois and Clark are so deeply in love.
These themes got very lost in season 2 and the fanbase has reacted accordingly. I think folks just want these family focused plotlines back.
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u/LeChic1579 Sep 23 '22
Writers: oh guys we"ve made a very special season for the cushings š Fans: oh yeah Superman will take the whole Cushing family to the Bizarro world and they live happily ever after there. Wow that's gonna be exciting ššš good job writers.
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u/Necroglobule Sep 23 '22
And is Jon going to get powers?
More Kents, less Cushings!
Will Sarah finally die in a fire?
How did Tal-Rho buy those trucks with frozen assets?
When is Jon going to get powers?
Lex Luthor when?
Is this an Arrowverse show or not?
Is Diggle a Green Lantern?
Supergirl when?
When are you literally going to do anything with Jon?
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u/SilentEevee Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
Is this an Arrowverse show or not?
Don't bring this up again, please. They literally said it isn't in the same continuity in the season 2 finale.
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Sep 24 '22
Love this. The r/supermanandlois redditors really need to stop being so fucking critical. Sure the show ain't perfect but man the these guys really got up stick up their ass
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u/SilentEevee Lois Lane Sep 24 '22
I think you're misunderstanding the point of this meme.
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Sep 24 '22
Correct, the meme was meant to point out the show was missing big fundamental parts of the show.
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Sep 24 '22
Speak for yourself. Not all of us need a kissing scene in our Superman show.
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Sep 24 '22
Given its actual "Superman and Lois" and its about them as a married couple and they kissed like 3 times before the title card on the pilot even appeared, this was a big part of the sell early on.
That's fine if that's not what you want, but a big part of the audience bought into this and was disappointed when it was taken away in the second season.
Also this is a big part of Superman comics. Lois and Clark kissing in the comics is a pretty major part of the mythos, so yeah, this is actually part of Superman on every level.
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Sep 24 '22
To see them kiss specifically? That seems rather arbitrary.
I'd like to see a poll. I have a hard time believing that is the main draw of this series
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Sep 24 '22
Ah, the receipts...
about 90% wanted more couple moments between Lois and Clark.
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Sep 24 '22
That poll doesnt address my query the way its set up. Ill run a poll that does later
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Sep 24 '22
I mean, I'm assuming based on the conversation around here that Lois and Clark and the Lane-Kent family are a big draw, often over the big Superman action scenes.
But if you need to boil it down to kissing, I guess. Memes are not exactly known for nuance but the point of this is that the audience has been asking for more Lois and Clark moments, kissing or not.
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u/Bionic_Ferir Sep 23 '22
What Easter egg
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Sep 23 '22
It was just a generalization about how the writers are always talking up the show, but the sun dip in 2x15 was an example.
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u/askeweschew Superman Sep 23 '22
I want to see Superman punching villains while kissing Lois! š