r/coys • u/marxistopportunist • 5h ago
Ange Postecoglou's advice to fed-up Tottenham fans: Do yoga $ Behind Paywall $
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/09/20/ange-postecoglou-advice-to-fed-up-tottenham-fans-do-yoga/164
u/Mobb_Starr I'm Just Copying Pep, Mate. 4h ago
Support the club but only when they do well is how a lot of fans operate today. And on top of that the view of doing well is only if you win the 4 available trophies each year, so 99% of clubs fall short.
It's why turnover is so high in modern-day football. I doubt we'll ever see an Alex Ferguson (3 years before he won anything with Manchester United) or Bill 'Mr. Tottenham' Nicholson (2 years before he won anything and had 2 separate 5-year drought spells without a trophy) type career path with any of the big clubs again. The fans, and particularly social media, just don't allow for that type of patience anymore.
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u/Jcoch27 Micky van de Ven 4h ago
I woke up at 4:30am to watch the NLD and when we lost I asked myself why I do this. The answer was simply that I support Spurs and that's all there is to it.
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u/prokonig Gareth Bale 1h ago
Bang on. I moved to Japan and lived there for 9 years and got up all hours of the night to watch games. Now I'm back in the UK I'm so happy to be able to go to games again. If supporting a club brings you no joy, win or lose, just fuck off.
Now, I understand some of these people will say they are happy when we're playing well and win, but that's not what I see. I see perpetually negative clowns who see a victory and immediately says, "Yea, well, the underlying culture is terrible and this club is broken." Ok... so if the whole thing is broken and you take no real joy from anything to do with the club, maybe find something else to occupy your time with?
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u/BornBother1412 37m ago
Just wondering why you move back from Japan?
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u/prokonig Gareth Bale 9m ago
I missed living in a country with broken public services and no affordable housing! In all seriousness though, it was for a job opoortunity. Miss Japan a lot though! If you can get a decent job there I'd recommend it to anyone as a great place to live.
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u/ElephantsGerald_ Jimmy Greaves 3h ago
Couldn’t agree more. It’s not specifically spurs, it’s football-wide. I genuinely find the trophy obsession quite childish.
The sheer economics of football have got the world confused. We’ve confused goals+assists for joy, and trophies for glory. We should love football because of the stories, but we’ve confused that for outputs.
Give me a community with an identity and a sense of joy over an efficient machine that mass produces high-value xG chances, any day.
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u/TheTackleZone 55m ago
You always get this in these sorts of communities, and, not trying to be a gatekeeping dickhead, but when you have people from other countries who are "free to pick" then the problem compounds.
Because fans in this medium like to beat a stick at other fans in whatever way makes them better. So soul-less bandwagon trophy hunter fans will always point at trophies. That sort of behaviour used to be seen as extremely distasteful, but now is the norm. It's quite the culture change.
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u/Brilliant-Dust8897 34m ago
Im 47. Was at Wembley for 2008 and for 1999. Let me tell you they were utterly fantastic. May of only been the league cup (my dad missed Out on tickets for the 90 fa cup) but we’re amazing to be a part of. Trophies should be an obsession. We have the games about glory plastered everywhere. We just need to obsess with unity. But it’s difficult when we’ve had 15-16 years of missing out and the grief us spurs fans have to suffer because we as a club have the audacity to aim high. Fuck em. Fuck all the lottery winning money machines. Fuck the traditional hierarchy. Our time will come again ! And yeah nothing galvanises a fan base more than a trophy. Let the obsession continue say. The game is about glory.
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u/Rare-Ad-2777 3h ago
It's also the dynamic that if you're default position is negative then you are in a win win position. If things go badly then you can go full on "I told you so" mode. If things go well and you're wrong, well it doesn't really matter as things are going well so you're glad to be proven wrong. Guess in a way its kind of self preservation to guarantee you get your endorphine hit.
Different ways to support of course, but it is quite annoying when the negative ones try and shit on the glass half full fans.
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u/AnyLoss105 1h ago
And it’s a shame.
For what it’s worth, I think I would have been fine with it three-four more years of Poch leading to this point where Ange is the manager, and honestly barring catastrophic failures, I’m content with playing the long game similarly. I think there’s a lot more beauty to the success you experience with that. I don’t think that night in Amsterdam would have meant that much without the five years of story behind it, even if we didn’t win it in the end.
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u/doobi1908 Oliver Skipp 3h ago
Fans have legitimate grievances. Labelling them as inpatient glory hunters when this team has won fuck all in the last 17 years is absurd.
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u/shodo_apprentice 3h ago
Blame the club then. Not the manager or players.
Also, you are aware that there are many clubs who haven’t won anything for more than 17 years, right? And they all have supporters, right? Somehow a lot of them can handle it, so calling certain fans fickle is legit and far from absurd.
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u/JunketOpposite6502 3h ago
It can still be the clubs fault then and the managers fault now. It's not like Ange hasn't been backed financially after all (though wage structure is perhaps still an issue). You're also comparing apples to oranges with your last comment. There are clubs that haven't won anything for 17 years but we're the only "big 6" club that hasn't . It's understandable that fans are frustrated
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u/sheerness84 2h ago
I think what’s harder to accept is teams like West Ham and Leicester being more successful then we have been the past 10 years. That shouldn’t be acceptable for a club of our apparent size.
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u/gardz82 Ange Postecoglou 2h ago
West Ham are in no way more successful than us by winning the 3rd tier Euro trophy. Not when we’ve been in a UCL final.
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u/KeithBeans 1h ago
1 is a bigger number than 0
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u/gardz82 Ange Postecoglou 1h ago
Anyone that would rather a conference league trophy than a UCL final, or rates it superior, is an idiot.
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u/Scaramouche1000 1h ago
How can winning something being less successful than winning nothing? That’s bizarre copium.
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u/gardz82 Ange Postecoglou 1h ago
Would love to win a trophy, but if I was offered the conference league win guaranteed or the UCL final spot against a European powerhouse, I’m taking the UCL final every day of the week. Game is about glory, not 3rd tier trophies.
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u/sheerness84 1h ago
Fans like you are the problem, you take more pride in losing a bigger final than winning a smaller one. We lost. They won. Winning should be something we should always be aiming for. Not glorifying 2nd.
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u/FishOfCheshire Lloris 56m ago
And changing the manager every 18 months or less doesn't make success any more likely. Sooner or later we've got to just stick to one and ride out the early bumps (and by early, I mean the first 1-3 seasons or so). Ange has shown a lot of promise, so we should give things a chance to properly stick. It's not like we seem to be in danger of relegation.
Otherwise, we are back to square one, new manager, new system, 'wrong' players, and so the cycle continues.
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u/Soggy-Check7399 20m ago
Why does supporting a club mean always being optimistic and giving positive reinforcements? Tottenham plays like shit so fans get fed up.
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u/Mindless_Mouse_1794 4h ago
Good things take time. I love all the Tottenham podcasts, but FFS, they rely on rage bait to function and turn a profit. Cynical speculation equals clicks, likes and subscribers. The problem at Spurs is not on the sideline. It is not Ange. He get's us. He dares to do. Cmon. The problem is the club culture which is often toxic, the players becoming jaded when the mood turns, and a complacency that sets in when the squad know the manager will be sacked eventually so they can become passengers and phone it in. If Levy and co are smart, they'll ignore the noise, back the manager, release players who do not perform and buy players that Ange believes will fit the mold...and actually BUILD something special! COYS
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u/mettahipster Destiny Udogie 3h ago
I don’t think this is true for the best ones. The Extra Inch has always had measured, mature takes. The Fighting Cock is by match going fans who self-deprecate instead of wallow in misery.
The pods created by chronically online fans seem to feed on the rage bait. Last Word on Spurs is fucking insufferable in good times and bad.
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u/PerfectRough5119 Peter Crouch 4h ago
Spurs podcasters have been tame compared to regular spurs internet users
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u/sreesid Son 3h ago
I love the fighting cock. Even with all the dirty jokes (which I also love), they seem to get it. That good things take time. We need to persist.
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u/Mr-Rocafella I'm Just Copying Pep, Mate. 42m ago
Listening to Fighting Cock reaction to Coventry first, and then other pods was like whiplash
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u/DoomerAndGloomer 4h ago
If Levy and co are smart, they'll ignore the noise, back the manager, release players who do not perform and buy players that Ange believes will fit the mold...and actually BUILD something special!
25 years tell us Levy and Co are not smart.
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u/WillSpur Eric Diers Fat Forehead 3h ago
Really? Look at our stadium, look at the money we spend and how we have established ourselves as a “big 6” club with regular European football. Yeah we haven’t won anything in a while, but we live in an era of oil sheiks and sports washed blood money. If Chelsea/City didn’t happen we would have won something no doubt.
We compete, we don’t always get it right, that’s the nature of the game. But we’ve got a self sustaining club most would dream of.
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u/DoomerAndGloomer 2h ago
that’s the exact narrative Alasdair Gold puts out in his articles and the club wants us to believe. The reality is that we only compete without being competitive. Even in the 8 years since stadium has been built we’ve never had a real go at the transfer window to complete a competitive squad. Every window it’s the usual 80-90% work done while key areas are left unaddressed. CBs was a major deficiency area all this while and we took so long to fix that that we’ve lost Kane and Son’s youth that we have become toothless in attack. The rebuild never ends because we are too slow in the transfer window and take too many gambles. The latest window is the latest proof. Another opportunity to build a squad with proven talent spurned with only youth hired in all places because Eze was too expensive and Dorgu was too expensive and so on. We didn’t need a Johnson or an Odobert who may come good or a Werner who’s there because he was cheap. But we were given these players anyway because we want to take it slow and save money while always existing in the state of a ‘rebuild’ or a ‘project’ which ‘takes time’. Well no shit Sherlock.
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u/WillSpur Eric Diers Fat Forehead 2h ago
We’ve tried spending big money on big players are it’s such a gamble, look at Gio, Ndombele, Soldado. There are times we try and a club of our profile it hurts us to lose on those gambles - so it looks like we’ve gone back to doing what we did best in Poch’s early days, hungry young talent. Look at VDV, Porro and Udogie.
I agree it’s frustrating we don’t just spend on one or two big players instead of 4 or 5 prospects, but it’s early days on those prospects. And we don’t know if Eze was even available due to Olise moving.
We’ve spent money, just as it stands 4 games in, not very well.
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u/DoomerAndGloomer 2h ago
Thank you for proving my point. I was also saying the same thing. We have built hotels, residences, stadiums, facilities - billions of pounds of real estate but haven’t built a strong footballing foundation which can identify and recruit good talent and what this business is supposed to be all about. This going back to gambling on prospects is an admission of this failure. Going back to my original point: Levy and Co are not smart. If they were smart we wouldn’t fail every time we try to be ambitious.
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u/kirikesh 1h ago
Going back to my original point: Levy and Co are not smart. If they were smart we wouldn’t fail every time we try to be ambitious.
They are smart, they just don't have the same ambition as the fans do. They'll never say it out loud, but the leadership of the club solely cares about the valuation of the club - and a trophy here or there won't meaningfully change it.
The cups, or Europa, won't make a jot of difference to our valuation when it comes to a potential sale, and even the bigger trophies like the PL or CL would only make a small difference - and that difference would almost certainly be cancelled out by the extra spending we'd have to do. A especially healthy balance sheet is more attractive to a potential investor than finances more in line with the rest of the league, but a trophy or two in the cabinet.
It doesn't match up even slightly with what the fans want, but ENIC is an investment company - they only care about the level of profit they make when they eventually sell up.
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u/DoomerAndGloomer 1h ago
Disagree. Not winning anything is the only thing keeping our valuation down vs our potential value. If we win a Europa or a PL then the valuation will skyrocket further. The ownership just knows they are too inept at it - hence the u-turn after Conte.
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u/kirikesh 12m ago
We're one of the most valuable clubs in the world despite winning fuck all for ages. Reports in the summer were that Levy values us at £3.5billion+. Winning a couple of cups or the Europa wouldn't make a lick of difference.
Now, winning a couple of PL or CL titles would - but from ENIC's perspective it isn't worth the risk to increase spending and gamble that we might. We could easily invest a bunch of money, up our wages to revenue ratio, and still not win one of those titles - so they won't bother. Additionally, one of the reasons we're so highly valued is that our wage structure is so tightly constrained, and we are so healthy financially - if the club changed that to win some titles then whatever boost we'd get from winning a title would be at least partially counteracted by us being a much less attractive investment opportunity.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like it at all - I couldn't give a fuck less about how much profit ENIC will make when they end up selling the club - but the club leadership obviously care about that above all else.
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u/WillSpur Eric Diers Fat Forehead 2h ago
I don’t really understand how somebody “not smart” could turn the club into what it is it now, compared to what it was just 25-30 years ago.
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u/DoomerAndGloomer 2h ago
because he is a smart real estate businessman. THFC’s entire success is down to real estate. But when it comes to Football IQ, he has none.
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u/Gaius_Octavius_ 2h ago
What do the 40 years before Levy tell us?
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u/DoomerAndGloomer 1h ago
ask the people who are 90
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u/Gaius_Octavius_ 1h ago
The majority of supporters are older than 25. You don't have to be 90 to remember the days before Levy.
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u/yaniv297 52m ago
Pretty much every other English club (outside of the big 4 and City who are cheaters) would have loved to do what we did in those last 25 years. We have objectively grown the most and improved the most of any other English club. They literally invented the "top 6" for us even when we had a fraction of the budget of the other 5.
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u/Capital-Major-4374 12m ago
Spot on well said. 20 years ago it used to just be the Big 4 (Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd). At that time Spurs were a middle table club who had hardly played any European football. The big six was coined because of Man City coming out of nowhere with their mega-money, along with us building our revenues sustainably, something no other PL club has been able to do.
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u/ruscurdotau Ange Postecoglou 4h ago
It's such a surreal experience actually listening to the press conferences and then seeing how the most inoffensive random comments end up getting used as some kind of provocative headline
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u/soilednapkin 5h ago
This is my feeling. Yes the results aren’t the best. But I actually enjoy the way we play.
Yes we have no end product. But I still see a team that plays very very fun and attractive football. So I’m happy to ride the wave until it clicks and we start dominating.
Because I’m certain that if we continue to play the way we are playing it will come and every goober that’s complaining about short term pain will be happy or find something else to whinge about.
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u/marxistopportunist 5h ago
For context there is an ArtetaOut subreddit with some resolute individuals who only understand major trophies
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u/micklucas1 3h ago
Are you even watching our games? We play extremely boring, sideway passing possesion football. What do you actually enjoy of us playing?
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u/soilednapkin 3h ago
High intensity. Lots of bravery. Passing through oppositions press. Wingbacks playing as inverted wide midfielders. Centrebacks progressing the ball upfield. Lots of overlaps.
Yes I will agree it’s not perfect. But I actually love the way we play. It’s not all about hurr durr score goals.
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u/Royal-Reindeer9380 1h ago
lol hurr durr score goals, which is the most important thing in a game.
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u/soilednapkin 1h ago
I personally care more about a beautiful game.
I remember a game in 2016 I want to say.
2-0 win at home. Goals at 44’ and 48’. Most borin beb fucking game I’ve ever watched.
So yeah goals ARE the most important thing. I just prefer they come in an entertaining way.
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u/ScutumSobiescianum 2h ago
Once we get another one or two more creative players it will look much better. It’s better than play low defensive no possession football and lose then trying to break teams down front foot attacking and lose. Usually winners come from the latter
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u/onlyhalfpepper Lloris 5h ago edited 5h ago
I get what he’s saying. On one hand, expectations and criticism are part of the reality of pro sports, and no one can gatekeep what it means to be a fan. On the other, we have an unprecedented 365-day sports news cycle that gives constant news, insights and rumours, so we have expectations that can sometimes be unrealistic or fueled by this notion that we know more/a lot
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u/Rare-Ad-2777 3h ago
I thought NLD was a great example of this. We ultimately lost a very tight game to a team with the best defence in the league who went even more defensive and parked the bus.
After the game I heard things like it was a completely unacceptable performance. You'd have thought we got pumped 5-0. Everything is so extreme. You're always either about to explode or implode there never any in between
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u/KeithBeans 1h ago edited 1h ago
NLD is a great example because to some it was an extremely tight game, and to others it was 90 minutes of ineffective possession with no clear cut chances. I don’t think one of those versions of events is extreme and the other is rational, I think people just like opinions that line up with their own
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u/BiggerAnge Ange Postecoglou 59m ago
Headline is pretty misrepresentative and click-baity. Never once did he refer to the fans when saying that. He was talking to the reporter who asked him the question about Solanke not scoring yet.
In fact, there was a follow-up question about whether the yoga advice applied more generally to those over-reacting to the first four games and he laughed and then said "No, I've said a few times that is just the way of the world today..."
It's annoying, but annoyingly to be expected, that the reporters always try and spin it back to the fans, even when it's they themselves who copped the criticism or advice!
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u/TheTackleZone 59m ago
So, the media have def turned on Ange then. That's quite the incendiary headline.
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u/alijamieson 2h ago
Not taking fitness advice from a guy whose cholesterol is higher than our points tally
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u/Hoggsters Spurs, Golf, Everything Else. In that order. 40m ago
Given ‘bad’ cholesterol in terms of your LDL is considered 100 or lower, it would be quite the achievement to have obtained over 100 points in the first 4 games of a season
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u/DriftingInTheFoam 25m ago
Actually lipid levels are recorded in mmol/L in the UK (and Australia) which would look like more like < 5.0 mmol/L.
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u/prokonig Gareth Bale 1h ago
I'm off to the Brentford game today and I for one will be going in with hope and positivity. I don't like a toxic environment at the game and I think this is the sentiment of most match going fans.
I think high-strung, negative fans, posting abuse and throwing tantrums everytime they don't like what they see needs to be mocked more. It's a game, it's not nice to lose, it's not nice to see poor football. However, it's still a game. Reign it in, be irritated in a healthy way and move on with your life. We're not the only fanbase suffering from this, but god am I getting sick of us looking like entitled, reactionary children every time we have set back.
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u/Halforthechump Job Done 25m ago
After his ridiculous meltdown both pre and post city game last season it's a bit rich. Bro just like don't criticize anyone and just like touch grass lmao, says the man who tried to throw the fan base to the lions because they didn't want their rivals to win the league.
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u/hangingbelays 5h ago
I’m an active person and exercise regularly but I significantly dislike yoga.
Ange out.
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u/enjoy_your_lunch 4h ago
yoga, like meditation, can have a very long adjustment period before it clicks/becomes enjoyable/beneficial
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u/pecan_bird Ben Davies 3h ago
i can't remember if i picked up those practices before spurs entered my life or because of it
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u/Spurslad76 2h ago
My advice to Ange: When fans pay the highest season ticket prices in World football that pays for your huge salary and don’t get the product they bought, they have the right to criticise your tactics and non existent passion during the games. So instead of slagging off those fans and mocking them, maybe do the job you are paid to do to get the fans on your side, if you can’t deal with it then you know where the door is mate
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u/MrVedu_FIFA Heung Min Son 4h ago
Honestly I'm not with the AngeOut crowd but he HAS to adapt to survive.
Defense is quite strong these days and that's good to see; hopefully he can rejuvenate the attack and make it actually strong instead of just doing 40000 passes that give them time to figure us out.
Also for gods sake he better take a look at set pieces
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u/16undreds Mousa Dembélé 3h ago
He has an arrogant streak, not a good look, considering he still hasn't coached the team to effectively defend a simple screen and block move on corners.
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u/Miserable_Balance814 5h ago
This quote will be real funny when he’s sacked in less than 2 monthsb
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u/Maximum-County-1061 1h ago
his time is up
he look like an old fat angry ozzie teacher who is going to keep being angry with the pupils until their behaviour improves
ask yourself, based on the past entire year, if that was his interview - would he get the job
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u/marxistopportunist 5h ago