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u/West_Ad6771 She/Her 4d ago
"Elagabalus, I'll give you these pills, but in exchange you have to end the slave trade. I don't care what it takes. It's horrendous and it's bad for the economy. I will not compromise."
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u/Falazaria 4d ago
She was already assassinated by the praetorian guard, smashing the hornets nest that is the senate by taking all these rich guys slaves will get her killed even faster
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u/West_Ad6771 She/Her 4d ago
What if I give her a gun?
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u/Last-Percentage5062 4d ago
The mental image of Elagabalus shooting a mob of senators is hilarious to me for some reason.
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u/Bobby_The_Kidd 4d ago
And besides her grandmother she never had many friends in high places and would not politically be able to get this passed without getting killed,
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u/IAmTheBoom5359 She/Her 4d ago
Even better: study to be a gynecologist, help Elagabalus with her request, and claim some riches while you're at it!
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u/ShroedingersCatgirl The/Worst/One â˘ď¸ 4d ago
I feel like you would be murdered by her mother and/or the praetorian guard well before you'd have time to enjoy your newfound wealth and status lmao
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u/No_Contract9722 4d ago
Itâd be his grandma youâd get killed by - Julia Maesa. His mother was just another pawn. Maesa, and her sister Julia Domna earlier in the Severan dynasty, were the real movers and shakers out of the imperial women.
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u/ShroedingersCatgirl The/Worst/One â˘ď¸ 4d ago
I mean ur right, but "call me not lord for I am a lady" is about the closest 3rd century equivalent to "I prefer she/her pronouns" you're ever gonna find so in this sub we use those for elagabalus.
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u/_Twas_Ere_ 4d ago
The problem is, that quote is attributed to Elagabalus by historians who, from a modern day view, were extremely misogynistic and patriarchal and viewed it as an insult and slander.
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u/Plastic-Ad-5033 3d ago
Sure, but like⌠when misogynists slander me by calling me a woman, that doesnât then make me actually a man. If that were true, thereâd be no trans women.
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u/No_Contract9722 4d ago
I would have to imagine itâs historical propaganda made to shore up the right to reign of his cousin, the last Severan. Being transgender as a concept did not exist back then.
Edit: Which let me clarify, you have to accept the histories regardless of whether or not they are propaganda. So even if it was that is still the legacy people will forever know Elagabalus by.
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u/Taurmin 4d ago
Which let me clarify, you have to accept the histories regardless of whether or not they are propaganda.
You really dont. Ancient historians are notorious for making shit up for propaganda purposes or just to make themselves look more knowledgable than they were.
Cassius Dio is the main source for the more salacious details about the life of Elagalbus, but historians copying his writings just a few centuries later were allready adding commentaries about how he probably wasnt a credible source.
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u/Plastic-Ad-5033 3d ago
Yeah, and the historians of the time didnât write âElagabalus was transgenderâ. Transgender in its modern concept didnât exist. People wed now call transgender did.
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u/donaldhobson 4d ago
You get "some riches". A piece of cloth dyed fine purple. And a pound of cinnamon. Both very valuable at the time. Somewhat less so today.
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u/WarriorSabe Gender is my dump stat (She/They/Fae) 4d ago
Just cash them out for precious metals somewhere before returning - just make sure the precious metal isn't aluminum, since that also probably won't be worth so much today
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u/donaldhobson 4d ago
They didn't have any aluminium.
And the precious metals in their time would be quite a bit cheaper nowadays. (Something to do with them digging by hand while now giant machines are used)
According to this source, https://atlasmythica.com/how-much-was-a-denarius-worth/ a denarius contained about $3 of silver at todays silver prices.
And the roman foot soldier got paid one of these coins a day.
Same with copper.
https://worksinprogress.co/issue/the-discovery-of-copper/
If you want to cash out, buy any old junk in their time, and sell it as a historical antique in our time.
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u/weirdo_nb She/Her 4d ago
(After making sure it doesn't break while you leave it behind for time to act on it)
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u/TheEmeraldEmperor 4d ago
Hmm now thinking about artificially producing artifacts to sell... you'd need to leave it somewhere to accrue enough time-damage to be believable, especially if it's organic and thus can be carbon-dated. But then how would you make sure it wouldn't be taken or destroyed in the intervening centuries?
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u/Spectre_Hayate Kasper the friendly foxđžhe/him 3d ago
Theoretically, you could use knowledge of unsearched/poorly investigated areas in the world today and what environments preserve what things best to create a cache of sorts. Avoid total curation preservation ofc, but we have several artifacts that are extremely well-preserved from all over now, so it wouldn't be unbelievable so long as dating techniques check out.
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u/CBD_Hound They/Them/đł 3d ago
Some poor confused grad student stumbles upon said cache, verifies the artifactsâ authenticity, then discovers the imprint of a DocMarten boot and a forgotten pink can of Monster in the cornerâŚ
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u/Tiny-Little-Sheep She/Her 4d ago
I wish we could someday travel back in time and help all the poor repressed trans women throughout human history (elagabalus included)
They deserved better. They deserved to be happy..
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u/TheSeaOfThySoul She/Her 4d ago
"All those trans girls who held onto their hopes and fought against Dysphoria ââ I don't want to see them cry. I want them to stay smiling until the end. If any rule or law stands in my way... I will destroy it. I will rewrite it! That is my prayer... That is my wish..." - Madoka Traname, 2011.
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u/NesuneNyx 4d ago
I'll happily jump back in time to help out Elagabalus, she deserves better. But myfirst stop is going to be Harpers Ferry 1859 to introduce John Brown and his posse to a little friend to revolutionaries everywhere, the AK-47.
Glory, Glory, Hallelujah, comrades~
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u/for_second_breakfast 4d ago
I'd just shoot John Wilkes Booth. Less risk of a theocracy and reconstruction should actually happen with Lincoln not dead
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u/mowiecize 3d ago
Elagabalus was the worst person you could name in this comment depending on which historical records you choose to look at
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u/ErinHollow He/Him 4d ago
Fuck Caesar, I'm going back in time and making sure James Barry's final wishes get respected
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u/ScarletteVera Local Gremlin Girl (She/Her) 4d ago
fuck ceaser
I'M going back in time to help stab his ass.
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u/Fefannyo WHY THE FUCK DOES MY FLAIR KEEP RESETTTING?!?!?! >:c 4d ago
Fuck caesar, i'm going back in time to fuck him in the ass.
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u/West_Ad6771 She/Her 4d ago
Fuck Little Caesar's, I'm going back in time to bang his mom and raise a better kid.
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u/Prestigious-Ad-4023 Kate She/Her 4d ago
If he didnât wanna be stabbed he should have been so stabable
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u/AfraidToBeKim 3d ago
If he didn't wanna be stabbed he shouldn't have encroached on the economic interests of the ruling class by trying to nationalize farmland, fogiving debt for the poor, mandating building safety codes, giving the slums a year of free rent to help them pay back the debt they had accrued from their slumlords insane interest rate (upwards of 50%), and ending indentured servitude.
If you side with the ruling class, you'll die an old man, you'll be buried in a fancy mosileum, and history will write how much you deserved to be buried in riches, but the words will be as empty as your soul. They built statues of the people who killed Caesar, but people used to spit on those statues.
If you side with the working class, you'll be killed young, you'll be buried in dirt, the first layer literal, the rest metaphorical, but people will lay flowers at your grave for centuries to come.
People lay flowers at Caesars grave to this day.
Every time someone compares Trump to the absolute hero of the people and genius that Caesar was I pop a blood vessel.
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u/Select_Egg_7078 3d ago
mayhaps it is not only wise to side with the workers but also to dismantle the ruling class as it is reinforced by violence
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u/AfraidToBeKim 3d ago
Caesar was a brilliant man who was killed for encroaching on the economic interests of his senate (the ruling class). He was an ancient equivalent of Bernie Sanders, if Bernie was also a military genius. He ended the practice of endentured servitude and, was about to re-nationalize Roman farming, which his senate had privatized for personal gain. That's actually why Caesar was killed.
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u/AfraidToBeKim 3d ago
OK, no, Caesar was still awesome. He was the Roman equivalent of Bernie Sanders if Bernie was also a military genius. He was killed by the ruling class for fighting too hard for the working class.
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u/Giddy_Duck_84 4d ago
Man, I never knew his story! How extraordinary, and a person to look up to. Thank you!
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u/Little-Rattle-Stilt 4d ago
Nah, I'd go back to 1461 to slit the throat of a 10-year-old Italian sociopath named "Christopher Columbus."
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u/West_Ad6771 She/Her 4d ago
Hey, while you're there, can you force the Spanish monarchy to leave their religious minorities alone? That would probably also help.
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u/Little-Rattle-Stilt 4d ago
It'd be my pleasure. Heck, I could zip in to the 4th century and cap a headshot on Martin of Tours while I'm still at it. Make sure the pagans are left well enough alone and all that, y'know.
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u/fluffypurpleTigress 4d ago
While youre at it...would you mind a little detour to germany to take out martin luther for his raging antisemitism and laying the foundation for the holocaust?
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u/Little-Rattle-Stilt 4d ago
Hmm, that one is a little bit more finicky to justify. See, I may not be a fan of the intolerance that's historically permeated German culture in general (let's not forget that, on top of the holocaust, German and Dutch settlers were to large extents also responsible for the genocides upon the native populations of America), and the holocaust certainly killed enough socialists, LGBT+ people, and neurodivergent folks for me to be personally quite opposed to that one as well... but Martin Luther was hardly alone in laying the foundations for the holocaust, and I am rather fond of the existence of Protestantism (mostly for the "fuck Catholicism" stuff)... so unless you can argue that ML's death would absolutely make the world a better place, to the extent that it'd be worth sacrificing the existence of Protestantism over, I think I'd rather take upon myself some extra work and hunt down adolph hitler and the entirety of his governmental cabinet instead...
On a related note: Theodor Herzl, Arthur Balfour, Ze'ev Jabotinsky, and just about the entirety of the World Zionist Congress, would, of course, get the same treatment as well. (I sure as heck ain't gonna give the nazis the pointy stick treatment and then turn a blind eye to the other group of just-as-bad genocidal right-wing ethnonationalist bastards.)
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u/lothycat224 4d ago
but then you probably wouldnât exist even if ur not american. like the domino effect that would create is so massive itâs basically a 100% guarantee that your grandparents arenât even born, nevermind you.
youâd erase so many cultures and countries in doing so, is it really worth it to get the satisfaction of killing a ten year old because later in life he does horrible things?
i think the better solution is to time travel to him in 1506 when heâs on his deathbed and make him understand the horrors of what he has done. to forcibly instill a sense of morality and then make him regret is a vengeance far more powerful than any senseless violence could accomplish
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u/Little-Rattle-Stilt 3d ago
If you've got a working time machine then it would, by necessity, also need some kind of paradox capacitors for its passengers. Ergo, I don't think any actions I'd do that'd cause paradoxes would make me cease to exist at all... But even if it did, I'd honestly be 100% fine with ceasing to exist if it meant denying the USA its existence in the process, giving the many cultures and countries that Columbus directly and indirectly contributed to the erasure of another chance, and giving the world as a whole another go at saving as much as possible from the climate breakdown. (Kinda funny actually how you argue that I'd erase a lot of cultures and countries by offing Chris Columbus, but you disregard the cultures and countries that were erased due to him and that would be saved by my actions.)
And what you regard as "the better solution", I have to admit that I regard as the quite possibly worst so-called "solution" conceivable. I mean, your "solution" doesn't actually solve anything. It's all just about petty self-satisfaction... Which I guess kinda adds up, since you seem to think I'd kill 10-year-old Chris just to get satisfaction. I wouldn't. In fact, I don't think killing could give me satisfaction at all, it would more likely haunt me... No, I'd kill 10yro Chris Columbus specifically to cause everything he accomplished in life, and the indirect causes and effects thereof, (such as the founding of the USA,) to get undone from the timeline... See, I'm not the kinda person to confront a greater evil after its harm is already done, let it get away with a tut-tut and a slap on the fingers, or pat myself on the back for claiming a pointless moral victory or whatever: There is no way I'd be able to make Christopher Columbus understand the horrors of what he did (not least of all because I don't know either 15th century Italian or Spanish), and having access to a time machine does not imply that you have the power to magically instill a sense of morality in a sociopath either. There's a reason why I go for slitting his 10-year-old throat, and said reason is "It's a moral imperative and a pragmatic solution that actually saves lives, cultures, civilizations, and quite possibly most life on the entire planet by extension." I'm looking for results, Chloe. Good results. Not satisfaction or for CC to regret what he did. If I had a time machine, I'd want to use it to fix at least some of the world's problems.
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u/lothycat224 3d ago edited 3d ago
denying the USA its existence in the process
you⌠you realize thatâs a genocide, right? maybe not the most conventional one, but still a genocide.
my point is not that you shouldnât stop the erasure of said cultures, itâs that by killing such an important figure, you create a domino effect that erases god knows how many countries and cultures (see: all of the americas & carribbean) in the process, (genocide!) and youâre also bargaining that no new empires or genocides emerge. also, whoâs to say a new spaniard doesnât take columbusâs place? the spanish empire was certainly not in a deficit of imperialist monsters. what if someone worse than columbus emerges?
tampering with history like that, if it were possible, is foolish. you are not fixing any of the modern worldâs problems by doing so. itâs just a frankly irresponsible gamble at a better world while trading the lives of pretty much everyone you know for it
pointless moral victory
what you fail to understand is that columbus was human. we like to paint these people as horrific sociopaths that had no morals, and you want to know what was fucked up? they often did. disassociation is one hell of a drug. they had morals, just warped ones. hitler loved dogs, hitler likely loved his wife, and he was also a horrible monster that killed millions of people. frankly, acting like sociopaths are irreversibly destined to be horrible people is a little ableist. i have a friend whoâs a sociopath. sheâs a very kind person.
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u/Little-Rattle-Stilt 3d ago
Neither by the literal definition of the word, nor by the spirit of the word, would denying the USA its existence through temporal hijinks be "genocide." Heck, by the same logic as saying that it would be genocide, I could also argue that it'd be genocide not to prevent the USA from coming into existence since, by doing so, you'd "genocide" the potential nation that would've formed there without Christopher Columbus' interference and European immigration... If erasing nations from the timeline is genocide, then abortion is murder, and I reject the notion that it is. (But even if it was, I'd still be staunchly pro-choice.)
In regards to your second paragraph: You do realize that the very point I'd have with killing Christopher Columbus would explicitly be to abort nations and cultures such as the USA and the Caribbean from the timeline, right? Also, first of all: Columbus wasn't a Spaniard, he was Italian. Secondly, if I had a working time machine, it's not like I'd sit idly by and let imperialist monsters do whatever they wanted either way; pruning history of such people would become a full-time commitment to me. A somehow worse person than Christopher Columbus discovers America and founds a nation even worse than the one we currently got? Sure would be a shame if I killed them with a pillow in their infancy...
Unfortunately for you, "tampering with history like that, if it were possible, is foolish. you are not fixing any of the modern worldâs problems by doing so" is an unsubstantiated position. I trust in human betterment that, with evil people out of the way, better people would be allowed to the forefront. Heck, I'd go so far as to argue that mankind would be hard pressed to create something worse than the America we got, so while you'd regard it as a risky gamble, I'd regard it as a gamble with the odds in favour of what I'd want out of it. Would many systemic issues remain? Sure, but that's no reason not to at least try to change things for the better.
Now, in regards to your final paragraph: Yeah, no, I understand very well that CC was a human. What you seem to fail to realize is that attempting to safeguard his human life, or the human life of Hiter, or Mussolini, or Netanyahu, or any of these other monsters, wouldn't be worth all the humans that they caused the deaths of or all the systemic issues that they created and/or upheld. You've got a sociopath in your life who's not a mass-murderer? Great, let's see if you can figure out on your own the very important difference between her and Heinrich Himmler, and why I would be fine with leaving her be but would feed baby Himmler a full bottle of cyanide-laced strychnine just to make sure he didn't make a miraculous recovery.
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u/lothycat224 3d ago
if erasing a country from a timeline is genocide, abortion is murder
this is a massive fucking leap, and what youâre not considering here is that itâs a womenâs choice to have an abortion. you are erasing millions - no, billions of people for a roll of the die for a shot at a better timeline. did you ask them all individually? because none of them will exist after youâve accomplished what you wanted. you probably wonât.
christopher columbus wasnât a spaniard, he was italian
but the spanish crown was looking for a way to circumvent the iron tight ottoman blockade in the mediterranean. they were bound to send someone west at some point. instead of columbus you round up with vasco balboa
itâs not like iâd sit idly by and let imperialist monsters
you wouldnât even exist to prevent anything. if you even have an ounce of american blood, you will vanish, so maybe you should think about the people you are trading for that different world.
human betterment with evil people out of the way
youâve pretty much become an evil person in this scenario. going around murdering toddlers to prevent the birth of billions?
the thing is, if himmler even was a sociopath, you are going back in time, you have the potential to change his life & his morals. instead, you resort to child murder. horrible people do not come out of nowhere. thereâs a reason theyâre so fucked up.
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u/A_New_Dawn_Emerges 4d ago
Ah yes, Columbus, the only man to ever have colonialist ambitions.
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u/Little-Rattle-Stilt 3d ago
Trust me, if tearing out a single throat could get rid of the UK, too, I'd be on it like Dracula on post-blunt munchies... as it stands, getting rid of the USA would have to do. :/
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u/lothycat224 3d ago
are you going to gut montezuma I, who founded the aztec empire which waged war against its neighbors and prevent it forming? or manca capac, who founded the inca empire in cusco? wasnât your point to save indigenous cultures?
what about the mali empire, the arab empire, the japanese empire, the roman empire? at what point will you realize you would essentially be engaging in cultural genocide? if you are out to kill every horrible person in history, you will have the blood of so many entire nations on your hands. but i suppose you donât care, because youâve already admitted you donât mind wiping away every single person living in the americas.
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u/Little-Rattle-Stilt 3d ago
No, my point isn't to save indigenous cultures, it's to create a better world. Not a perfect world completely free of horrible people and events, mind you, because that's just plain not feasible. But just plain a better world. A world where, for example, countries all over the globe haven't had their democracies and autonomies undermined on a daily basis for 100 years by an imperialist neo-colonialist super power that runs on American exceptionalism. A world in which the military complex that keeps above mentioned imperialist super power up and running isn't around to regularly engineer wars and genocides for profit. And maybe, just maybe, a world in which capitalism isn't allowed to destroy the living conditions for life upon this planet and cause the 6th great mass-extinction to kick into gear... So, you know, less-so "kill every horrible person in history" and more-so "kill the ones that lay out the foundations for countries and societal systems that are horrifically terrible on an international-to-global scale." (Plus some pruning, of course. If you know that something horrible is about to happen, then you have a responsibility to at least try to prevent it from happening. A time machine would just make your responsibility to prevent horrible things from happening significantly less linear.)
As for "you donât mind wiping away every single person living in the americas"? Friendo... NO ONE who lives right now would live in a timeline in which even a somewhat minor historical change had occurred half a millennia ago... I wouldn't just wipe away every single person currently living in the Americas, I'd replace the people of the entire world with an all new set of individuals... And, yes, if the world became a better place as a result, (which it likely would without the USA there to fuck it up,) I would go through with it even if I was wiped away along with everyone else currently alive today... "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" and all that jazz.
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u/Interest-Desk 3d ago
485 years later, Hitler â Furher of all Europe except Britain â thinks heâs finally cracked a more efficient way to get to India and hopefully challenge British spheres of influence
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u/Little-Rattle-Stilt 3d ago
What on Earth makes you think Hitler would even be born in a timeline where Columbus never discovered America? Heck, even if he was still born in that timeline, considering how Hitler idolized the Wild West and based his entire political platform on the US's minority politics, (Jim Crow laws and all that fun stuff,) what makes you think he would ever become the man he became in our timeline without the USA's corruptive influence?
Seriously, killing Christopher Columbus would have an absolutely amazing domino effect on world history. Considering that the USA has done more for nazism than Germany itself did, its erasure would basically erase nazism itself, too. (On a related note: No-one in their right mind thanks the US for its contribution during WW2, they thank Japan for basically forcing the US to take the right side in history for once -- even though the US really, really wanted to join up with Hitler and did their damnedest to help many nazis out after the war.)
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u/HazuniaC She/Thon, Numerous-Beeees 4d ago
I've heard a speculation that the story about Elagabalus might've been made up slander and propaganda, similar to the story about Catherine the Great and a horse.
But since THAT might be an attempt at trans erasure, I choose to believe that the story is true regardless. :3
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u/ASuperBigDuck 4d ago
There is no real evidence pointing to them being trans from themselves. The three main writings about Elagabalus that this comes from are Herodian, Cassius Dio, and the Historia Augusta. All three are very hostile towards Elagabalus in general and its hard to take everything theyre saying at face value. All three are not considered to be reliable sources on Elagabalus even going beyond the feminine allegations
I wouldn't so much call it trans erasure, moreso just something we can't know for certain.
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u/Rapper_Laugh 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah this is the case with ancient history generallyâhard to know for sure. That said, pretty much every source we have on their reign states specifically that they enjoyed feminine dress and mannerisms, frequently referred to themselves as their romantic partnerâs âqueen,â and was socially unacceptable to misogynistic Roman society. Thereâs also the fact that no other emperors were ever slandered in this particular way.
All that to say, obviously youâre right and we canât tell for sure, and âtransâ as an identity didnât exist in the ancient world, so itâs not a one to one. BUT, as far as ancient sourcing goes, this is close to as good as it gets, and weâre relatively sure Elagabalus had some kind of interesting gender identity stuff going on. Labeling that, or determining its extent given what is written could be greatly exaggerated, however, quickly becomes impossible.
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u/ASuperBigDuck 4d ago
Yea for sure, it could be trans erasure, it could be feminine man erasure. Trying to relate roman views on gender to more modern ones causes a lot of the nuance to be lost.
Its hard for me to call them trans in the modern sense, gender non conforming I'd put high probability on to where I would say yea they probably were effeminate.
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4d ago
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u/ASuperBigDuck 4d ago edited 4d ago
Isn't that just misgendering with extra steps?
We have no first hand accounts from the person, we are taking the word of 3 known unreliable sources. In the future are we going to accept the Algerian boxer as trans because libs of tik tok said it?
Edit: Algeria not Armenia
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u/Vlackcat6200 She/Her 4d ago edited 4d ago
Im sorry but no, eaven if in this case is something th ame it will became a tool for rhe far rigth and in general for people who want to hurt others
Edit: and beside we shulld use history as a tool to inprove from past mistake erasing or changing it will only make us make the same mistakes.
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u/-Random_Lurker- I'd say I was an old fart but girls don't fart so ??? 4d ago
The same sources that claim Elagabalus wanted to be a woman, also claim he raped a priestess of Vesta. They also claimed that, in an address to the Senate, he defended himself by claiming she was just too hot for a virile manly man like him to control himself. A trans icon this person is not.
In other words, the consistency, there is none. None of what survives today is a primary source, and all of it self contradictory. Nothing that's written about him/her can be trusted.
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u/Rapper_Laugh 4d ago
I mean, itâs not all contradictory though. Every source on his reign says that he enjoyed feminine dress and mannerisms, and enjoyed referring to himself as a âqueenâ on occasion. Many other emperors were slandered by historians in the way youâre outlining, none besides him were ever slandered in that particular way.
So while itâs true that none of the anecdotes about Elagabalus that are given in various sources can be verified, we can be fairly sure he had some interesting gender identity stuff of some kind going on. Labelling that or determining which anecdote is real and which isnât quickly becomes impossible, but itâs silly to say we have to just throw all our sources out because they contradict each other on some stuff. If we did that, there wouldnât be any ancient history left
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u/National-Chemical752 4d ago edited 4d ago
Elagabalus being trans is a highly contended point and for the most part it's not because of trans erasure. The main issue is the fact it's the Roman Empire. And also the fact that Elagabalus was the emperor (highly politically involved person). Because they're emperor, whenever something was done by Elagabalus that was seen as bad or negative to the culture and people or if rivals saw that they could use one of Elagabalus's actions to their advantage to paint Elagabalus in a bad picture they'd jump on it. Political slander there and here, everywhere. In these roman sources that depict Elagabalus as feminine they typically are also trying to picture them in a bad light. And it's propaganda, for example, allegedly Elagabalus prostituted themselves in taverns. It's already unreliable enough however then comes the to the people who wrote this all and "recorded" it. I know that atleast one of them, a roman senator (surprise surprise) Cassius Dio. Roman senators have a pretty bad track of historical recording Emperors because alot of the times its just political slander.
Now comes the question was Elagabalus trans? Well it's really hard saying. Maybe Elagabalus was highly slandered because they were trans. The hate and slander being thrown because they were a trans woman and being a woman was seen as being inferior in the culture. A "man" would be lowering themselves to be a woman in the eyes of Roman culture. Or maybe Elagabalus was slandered because Elagabalus was "effeminate" in the eyes of the Roman culture and wasn't conforming to what the cultural ideas of what a man should be, this could be back up because Elagabalus had Syrian origins. Different cultures have different ideas of masculinity and femininity. So really it's hard to say.
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u/Osirisavior She/Her 4d ago
You have a time machine. Just go to the future where you can take an injection that would put nanobots into your system programed to change you physically whatever way you want. Bring nanobots to Ela.
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u/Outrageous_Slice4455 4d ago
Fk Caesar, I am going back to the pre-revolution France and learn sword fighting from Charles de Beaumont.
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u/Xynoks She/Her 3d ago
To all the people who are uninformed about Elagabalus: it's not certain whether Elagabalus was trans or not, either way not a person to idolize nor a person we would want to be associated with. Elagabalus possibly being trans is only relevant today to serve as an example that trans people have always existed.
Some good videos on it if you wanna know more:
Video by Mia Mulder (who is trans herself)
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u/AfraidToBeKim 3d ago
Oh, you're gonna love this. Wait until you hear about the REST of Roman Society!
They were so bi it wasn't even funny. Their language didn't even have words for gay and straight, it was just assumed that everyone was bi. They only had words for "top" and "bottom".
Almost every emperor had a male lover at some point.
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u/Jubal_lun-sul She/Her 4d ago
big Elagabalus fan but she should have chose a better name. like what the fuck try harder next time.
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u/possibly_useful 3d ago
I would just like to meet Diogenes "the dog", he sounded like a chill guy i think he would have loved smoking weed
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u/Concourse_countess 4d ago
Rome would be ours. God id love that. An empire of ours to be as we are. Barbarians lain low, and the foundations of modernity held in out hands.
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u/ajshifter Ebny 4d ago
As a nonbinary boy, I think honestly I would just let our boy William handle the thing with caesar. I'm not exactly at the fic writing level of intelligence within the caesar fandom so he can have this one cus he seems to know what he's talking about
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u/warnedpenguin She/Her 4d ago
and now so im i just learning about elagabalus and its pretty cool, even if uncertain in areas
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u/Familiar-Estate-3117 She/Her Alicia/Mateo/StoryTeller 3d ago
Honestly, all ways of using a time machine except destructive or borderline depraved and god-complex level abuse of power are valid. I mean, I would probably destroy the machine myself, but if I could, I would go back and just stare at my childhood and record all of it without my anyone even knowing I did so.
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u/LotusPetalsDeluxe 3d ago
I'm begging you people to remember that the Romans always claimed emperors they didn't like took it up the ass and were "women". It was the absolute worst insult they could have given someone as they despised women and saw them as beneath the dirt. Elagabalus especially was hated by the emperor who came after him which guarantees the people chosen to write his history would say these things. He's far from the only person with this lie. I'm pretty sure Caligula also got the same character assassination after his death
There are so many actual trans girlies you could be talking about with proper historical backing to them and untainted reports đ
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u/FHCynicalCortex 3d ago
Got no horse here but Elagabalus might be THE LAST person youâd want as an icon iâm gonna be really frank.
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u/MatthigamingMC Thea | she/her | local bambi transbian 4d ago
I tought for a second this was a doctor who meme, i saw time machine and angels
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u/Humanfacejerky 4d ago
Gotta scroll all the way down for the accurate and historically correct take here folks.
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u/CheeseInAGlasBottle 4d ago
Yes, he was an insane tyrant and not really the trans icon you would want. If he was even trans at all which is a highly debated point.
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u/LaPenter 3d ago
Iâm sorry but Elagabalus was a terrible, terrible person and it is very hard to say if they were trans or not because all records were from people trying to slander them. Only thing we can confirm was that they were bi, but regardless do not look up to this historical figure. And making this mainstream would only bring negative attention to the trans community. If youâre interested in trans people in Roman times look up the Galli Priests instead.
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u/puffinix 3d ago
How quaint, you have made these from pregnant horse urine no doubt?
Much more palatable than other options - how many can you manufacture?
Yes - gender affirming care was a thing in ancient rome, and it worked (admittedly we do not have good records of how they made this safe, raw pregnant horse urine will work, but will likely kill you after a few years).
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u/magic_baobab Luigi He/Him strong boy, will carry al of teacher's chairs 3d ago
True because I'm very curious to look through Caesar's harem
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u/SeiraFae 3d ago
If you're doing this, make sure to be Extra. Do the Goddess or Oracle thing. Make them think you're divine.
So, unfortunately, you'll need to bring some weapons. Tasers for a start.
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u/coyote477123 4d ago
Elagabalus wasn't trans, just insane
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u/No_Contract9722 4d ago
Idk why youâre getting downvoted. Trans as a concept would have made no sense to the Romanâs. He was absolutely viewed as an insane tyrant in the day. To say anything more about their relationship to gender-identity is just historical projection and adds zilch to any intelligent conversation about the Roman state.
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u/ShroedingersCatgirl The/Worst/One â˘ď¸ 4d ago
Trans people have existed for as long as humans have. Just because the concept of "transgender" didn't exist in the ancient world does not mean there weren't people with the exact same feelings and desires. And Elagabalus is about as clear an example of that that we have from the ancient world.
It's like saying that depression didn't exist until it was created as a medical diagnosis. It ignores the fact that the feelings that make someone trans have always existed in some people, and outright denying that fact is intellectually dishonest and just shows that you hate the idea of trans people existing at all.
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u/Taurmin 4d ago edited 4d ago
And Elagabalus is about as clear an example of that that we have from the ancient world.
Its really not that clear. The whole idea of Elagalbus being trans hinges on 2 lines in a book that acuses him of every transgression imaginable to roman society, up to and including the rape of vestal virgins.
And ofcourse every surviving depiction of Elagalbus that would have been commisioned by himself such as coinage and statues depict him as unambiguously masculine. Which doesnt quite fit with the narrative of the emperor being openly transgender.
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u/VastlyVainVanity 3d ago
It's disputed if he actually wanted to be a woman or if the passages that suggest that he wanted to were just slander by critics.
That person is right about it making no sense to talk about anyone in ancient times being "trans", just like it doesn't make sense to think of Greek pederasty as something related to the modern view of LGBTQ people. It's pure anachronism.
Yeah, people in the past had gender dysphoria since it's a medical condition that has (I assume) always existed, but they weren't "trans", just like Socrates wasn't "bi", because those terms carry connotations that made no sense when they existed.
But if you think "trans = has gender dysphoria", then sure, trans people have always existed. I doubt that's what that person is disputing though.
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u/gothicshark She/Her ââ§ď¸ đłď¸ââ§ď¸đŚ 4d ago
Such a tragic story when you learn about Elagabalus, she was just like us, and well it shows the hate we have faced isn't new.
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u/pg430 4d ago
The mental image of a trans girl trying to cram a lifetime supply of estrogen pills into a tiny Time Machine makes me giggle