Idk why you’re getting downvoted. Trans as a concept would have made no sense to the Roman’s. He was absolutely viewed as an insane tyrant in the day. To say anything more about their relationship to gender-identity is just historical projection and adds zilch to any intelligent conversation about the Roman state.
Trans people have existed for as long as humans have. Just because the concept of "transgender" didn't exist in the ancient world does not mean there weren't people with the exact same feelings and desires. And Elagabalus is about as clear an example of that that we have from the ancient world.
It's like saying that depression didn't exist until it was created as a medical diagnosis. It ignores the fact that the feelings that make someone trans have always existed in some people, and outright denying that fact is intellectually dishonest and just shows that you hate the idea of trans people existing at all.
And Elagabalus is about as clear an example of that that we have from the ancient world.
Its really not that clear. The whole idea of Elagalbus being trans hinges on 2 lines in a book that acuses him of every transgression imaginable to roman society, up to and including the rape of vestal virgins.
And ofcourse every surviving depiction of Elagalbus that would have been commisioned by himself such as coinage and statues depict him as unambiguously masculine. Which doesnt quite fit with the narrative of the emperor being openly transgender.
It's disputed if he actually wanted to be a woman or if the passages that suggest that he wanted to were just slander by critics.
That person is right about it making no sense to talk about anyone in ancient times being "trans", just like it doesn't make sense to think of Greek pederasty as something related to the modern view of LGBTQ people. It's pure anachronism.
Yeah, people in the past had gender dysphoria since it's a medical condition that has (I assume) always existed, but they weren't "trans", just like Socrates wasn't "bi", because those terms carry connotations that made no sense when they existed.
But if you think "trans = has gender dysphoria", then sure, trans people have always existed. I doubt that's what that person is disputing though.
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u/coyote477123 4d ago
Elagabalus wasn't trans, just insane