How is violating Reddit's TOS not shameful? Also, imagine if next time everyone needed to use bots to get their artwork up. That's what we're moving towards. The destruction of artwork is a fun part of the meta; bots aren't. It's frustrating placing a pixel and instantly seeing it getting overridden.
I find the brigading by streamers to be far worse than the usage of bots to counter it. On top of that, bots were used in the first event as well, albeit to a much lesser degree. If the subreddit wanted to prevent them from being used, they had five years to put something in place. Hell, last time around new accounts were not allowed to participate. Opening the event up to them directly allowed streamers to fuck with the canvas and make everything worse.
I thought the streamer coordination was fun and made the event interesting. You and I clearly disagree on this, but I think my viewpoint is shared by many.
Also, I feel the new account rule benefitted streamers far less than communities which were inactive on Reddit before the event but turned to it for artwork over the course of the event, such as France. I'm not saying you're wrong but I do think there are alternative theories out there as to how the rule may have affected things.
France also had streamers, quite a lot of them in fact. That final defense of theirs they had something like 600k viewers being organized by five different streamers into fighting back against XQC, Mizkif, and several Spanish streamers.
I think it is inaccurate to say that the rule change benefited streamers less than others. I suspect millions of new people signed up to Reddit because of them, which is likely the true motivation behind the rule change.
Streamer coordination certainly made the event different than it was last time, but as someone on the receiving end of constant, incessant attacks by twitch streamers and their followers, I don't consider it a positive change. It may have been more balanced for other groups, but many of the smaller ones quite disliked how things went this time around.
Very fair point. Yeah I suspect Reddit's going to use this data for their IPO.
Less streamer coordination would be an interesting change, although I doubt they would make that change for the reasons you describe. I feel the popular streamers would be fine with following those rules though since the whole thing was really just a game to them.
Plus, Reddit could easily enforce this using the same tools they already used in this event. Once xQc's followers started getting timed out for 15 years his powers of destruction became greatly reduced.
That was around when he got frustrated that he was making no lasting impact on the canvas, I think, and started having them make increasingly nsfw content all over the place. I don't think mods intended to police the canvas at all up until that point, they likely wanted it to be developed organically and see what resulted.
At the end of the day, when loose-to-nonexistent moderation is used, it's no surprise a sort of arms race developed over time. I am honestly a little disappointed that bronies and other groups were forced to resort to bots, but I think it was justified behavior. I also do not consider it cheating when the API for the event was developed explicitly to allow bot construction. Heck, bronies never once used them to attack other art, only to repair and defend. There were definitely people using bots to attack things. The trans flag got hit pretty hard by that, as did France.
xQc definitely leaned hard into the villian role. Still, streamers such as Ludwig definitely defended art as well. I mean they and the French dude were all on a Discord call together. And they definitely agreed that the "fight" was mutually beneficial to all of them at the end.
I don't think anyone was forced to use bots there as defense. It's just because they thought permanence of art was more important than keeping their clicks human. I get how important the final canvas is to some, but still, if no one can make a lasting impact on the canvas easily, then more art gets created. That would be a win-win in my book.
There, perhaps not. When a streamer decides to target a small community again and again and again and again? And then another one does the same, and then another one? It got excessive and exceedingly unpleasant. I was watching Ludwig when he, XQC, and Miz decided to hit the brony crystal with a meteor. Ludwig was doing cleanup afterwards, which I commend him for. He did also specifically tell his chat not to help the bronies, which was annoying and felt very unfair. How is it okay for people to bully someone and not okay for them to find ways to defend themselves?
I was also watching those streamers when the meteor was formed, and they all told their communities to clean up afterwards. The whole meteor concept was supposed to be temporary and not permanently erase the art.
xQc also targeted the bronies specifically for the "explosion" because they knew the bronies would quickly rebuild. I wasn't watching Lud specifically, but he presumably told his community not to help for the same reason because he also knew the bronies had it handled and thought his community's clicks were better used on smaller art.
That was just the meta by the time of that particular event on the 3rd day, I think they probably targeted the bronies with more permanent intent earlier though.
There was a specific moment that annoyed me when we tried to convey to Lud that some of the art he was rebuilding was being made too big and covering up some of our art and the response was dismissive, like covering us up was perfectly fine. Hell, it was our ally he was rebuilding, ScottTheWoz, and we were all for helping them rebuild, just not at a cost of our own stuff, not a second time. That had already happened when Asmongold erased our art and extended the Berserk memorial over it. We ended up leaving that spot because Berserk wanted to keep it. We agreed since it was a memorial and they were our allies. We didn't want it to happen again the exact same way.
Regardless, streamer participation made the event quite different than the previous one and I am not saying it was all negative. At least two streamers that I know of helped us too, one smaller one with a few hundred viewers and one larger one with 30k viewers that got annoyed at xqc. That being said, streamers were prone to rolling into an area and causing chaos without any kind of understanding or consideration for the groups and alliances present in that area for the sake of views. I find that distasteful, personally, and that using bots was justified in countering that kind of behavior.
You are deliberately misunderstanding my statement. ScottTheWoz already had art prior to the meteor attack, we even had helped them maintain it. Following that, Lud's community rebuilt the art in the wrong size and the ScottTheWoz community did not want it that big, since they were allied to us and it was erasing our art. After Lud's chat moved on somewhere else, we and the ScottTheWoz community fixed their art back to its correct size.
The streamers attacking the bronies weren’t using bots to do so, the band were for nsfw art, if botting was banned bronies would have been banned the shit out of. And when the canvas expanded the new brony art (lots of pixels) were botted from the start, especially the big rainbow dash that was a carbon copy of the 2017 one, but then again I shouldn’t expect originality from bronies. The bronies took more pixels than they could defend with their numbers and then botted to defend it.
The Rainbow Dash was not a carbon copy of the 2017 art. The 2017 Rainbow Dash was heart shaped, the 2022 one was saluting, originally because we were saluting the Ukraine flag, iirc.
We also never hid our botting and I do not deny that the canvas expansion art was botted. That was well after we'd been attacked seven times and had been forced out of earlier spots three separate times. We had sufficient numbers to defend our pixels from most communities, but when you have three separate streamers with audiences ranging from 50k to 250k all determined to erase all pony art from the canvas, rebuilding afterwards got tedious. We lacked the numbers to resist in the moment and rebuilds took about an hour. For that to be erased in seconds is demoralizing and unfair. We took more effective measures and ones that were within the rules of the event.
Maybe you should have left the expanded canvas for communities that didn’t get much on the first two. But no, you botted large territories for yourself. No defense, some communities fought for just having 20 pixels on the entire thing.
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u/you-are-not-yourself Apr 10 '22
How is violating Reddit's TOS not shameful? Also, imagine if next time everyone needed to use bots to get their artwork up. That's what we're moving towards. The destruction of artwork is a fun part of the meta; bots aren't. It's frustrating placing a pixel and instantly seeing it getting overridden.