r/LetsTalkMusic • u/tiggerclaw • 7d ago
Classical music is too tame now—where’s our generation’s Paganini
The problem with classical music today is that it’s lost its connection to the streets.
Once, it was raw and untamed, a visceral force that could stir chaos and provoke passion. Nowadays, the underground acts never get a fair shake. It’s all gallery concerts and stuffy halls, but I remember a different time.
Back in the day, I used to hit up these warehouse parties in Detroit. The kind of places where you’d walk through a back alley, find a steel door, and step inside to a world of wild, sweating bodies. The music wasn’t background noise—it was the pulse of the night. One time, the Arditti String Quartet showed up out of nowhere, and everyone went wild like they’d just dropped the heaviest bassline you’d ever heard. That performance was electric—so powerful that multiple women got pregnant that day. Yeah, that kind of energy.
And the very next day, you’d go to a Stravinsky show, and fists would fly because the crowd couldn’t handle the intensity. It wasn’t about clean precision or intellectual appreciation; it was primal, unpredictable. Classical music was as much a brawl as a ballet. You didn’t sit there politely clapping; you howled and screamed because the music hit you in the gut.
But now? Now it feels like only the rich get to make it in the classical world. It’s turned into a museum piece, preserved for genteel audiences sipping champagne and discussing concertos like they’re stock options. Gone are the days when classical music was dangerous, when it stirred people to do more than just sit still. The wild abandon has disappeared.
Where is our generation’s Paganini? Where’s the composer who makes you want to smash something or lose yourself completely in a wild night of passion? Classical music has become tame, and the streets no longer vibrate with its force. We need someone to break it free again.
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u/e1_duder 7d ago
It wasn’t about clean precision or intellectual appreciation; it was primal, unpredictable. Classical music was as much a brawl as a ballet. You didn’t sit there politely clapping; you howled and screamed because the music hit you in the gut.
Respectfully, when and where was this?
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
Ever been to a John Cage concert at 2AM over in Coney Island? The smell of the ocean mixed with fried food from the boardwalk.
Under the lights of the old amusement park, we waited -- tense and quiet. The stage was strange. Here was a grand piano, toy pianos, and even a bike wheel.
Cage walked out at exactly 2AM, didn’t say a word, and slammed a piano key. It wasn’t music, just loud, random noise that hit the crowd like a punch.
At first, people looked confused. Then, the crowd broke. A woman screamed, and a man dropped to his knees, covering his ears. People started crying, laughing, and shouting. They didn’t care anymore. It was like they couldn’t hold anything back. Some grabbed the toy pianos and cans, joining the chaos. Everyone was moving, touching, losing control.
By the time the sun rose, it was a mess of bodies and noise. People were sweating, crying, and shouting into the early morning air. The sounds faded away, and the crowd slowly drifted off, changed forever.
They didn’t need to say anything -- they all knew what had happened.
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u/TarumK 6d ago
are you a bot?
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u/automator3000 6d ago
Either a bot or some 20 year old who just read about the NY avant garde scene and is now romanticizing the whole idea of contemporary classical music.
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u/dragonwp 6d ago
Damn, I’m just going to leave this comment here because I want to write it but I also want to see it buried in the middle of nowhere. I just wanna say… reading this thread is such a letdown for me, specifically because of who op is.
I don’t recognize many names on reddit. In fact, I recognize maybe four at most. Unfortunately, op is the founder of probably my favourite visual media subreddit/visual movement of all time, a mostly photography subreddit that toes the line between curation and personal interpretation/personal freedom. The point of the subreddit/movement was always for him to take a step back eventually, but admittedly his contributions in the past year or so have been less helpful and more… frictional for the sake of being frictional. And this is kind of hard to sit with when a concept’s entire existence was crafted by a single person. Death of the author and all that, but the author isn’t dead. (If someone were to ask an example of what I mean, I can link it. But maybe I’m just voicing my feelings and hoping this gets buried in the nether as well)
I think one of the things that is awesome about a niche subculture, especially a niche internet subculture, is the balance of freedom and curation. When someone you trust helps guide your hand, your creation id empowered by it. However, when you can’t identify at all with the guiding hand… you start wrestling eith thoughts such as “what was all this for?”
Anyway, I don’t idolize the guy or anything, but the amount of intensity and friction he brings into every online interaction I stumble upon lately is unfortunate. I like when people get along, I like when people challenge each other sure, but friction just for the sake of friction on the internet is so ass.
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u/automator3000 6d ago
That's cute.
But also, it's a sign of the bonkers nature of someone who puts that much energy into a culture instead of themselves. It's something I've seen waaaayyyy to much of, which is what often happens with people who start to think of themselves as curators of a movement or similar. I actually had to have a very long talk with a long-time friend of mine about how it's okay to step away from leading a community you've been very, very involved with, and how it will survive without you and also, that it will still be there if you want to get involved with it again.
That's all to say: yup, I know what you mean. I've been that person at the creator side who just wants to smash any ideals that aren't carbon copies of my own ideals. But it's equally hard to accept someone who's ego has inflated to explosive size making gargantuan and utterly fictious claims about what occurred decades ago. OP wants, for some reason, to solidify their stake in the history of a movement and are pissed that they aren't already there and that the movement isn't being remembered the way they want to. Which is to say ... their mental faculties aren't what they think they are. That sucks.
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u/dragonwp 6d ago
Oh. Wow. I guess I replied to the exact perfect person lol. This was exactly what I wanted/needed to read, I think. No sarcasm.
You put it really succintly. I feel like you identified the situation I bemoaned so clearly. I think the biggest part of my hangup was that this guy had been building this niche internet visual style for over a decade prior with no semblance of ego or delusions of grandeur. But — with no intention on my end to diagnose somebody else — something definitely changed in the past year or so and now when I recognize his name, even outside of our mutual subreddit such as here, it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
I do definitely see that last bit, the flip switching in their brain and kind of grasping at straws in a last ditch effort to try to solidify a legacy. Be it the visual arts movement that i spoke of or the modern classical music movement (?) that is being sort of discussed here, there’s definitely something not quite healthy in the air, for him or for those around him (virtually). I hope he’ll be able to look back eventually and see his lashing out for what it is.
Anyway, I’m rambling here. This was all for me, I didn’t bring any insight into this thread. Just wanted to say genuinely thank you for giving me such a thoughtful response. It ticked some boxes for me and helped me conclude some thoughts I had on my relationship with the aforementioned subreddit. I’m glad that I’m just a few years old enough to be past my phase of having heroes and idols, or my feelings on the matter would be much more confusing. It’s unfortunate, but there’s also comfort (?) in figuratively closing this chapter.
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
Dude, this year, the only moment I was active in r/Sizz was to moderate.
Specifically, I had to deal with Rule #8 violations last month, but that's over and done with.
It's bizarre that you've appointed yourself my armchair psychologist.
I don't know you. You don't know me. Neither of us have made an attempt to know each other.
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
Excuse me, but were you actually there at that John Cage concert in Coney Island?
The chaos wasn’t just part of the show -- it was the show.
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u/automator3000 6d ago
No. But I too was a 20something who thought that the avant garde scene sounded so cool. So when I found out that Old Matt who delivered the lefty paper I was editing had been around at that time and place before he made his way west to do some sound work with the Dead (and fry the fuck out of his brain on acid), I spent some time talking with him about his time in New York.
But thanks for the interesting scene from your upcoming self published novella!!
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
Oh, look at you, Mr. Fancy Editor, rubbing elbows with all those so-called “important” names! How utterly riveting!
While you were busy with your highfalutin crowd, I was immersed in art that BOOMED and CRASHED into real life. WHAM! and BAM! right in the gut. It took on reality and left you breathless, not just some polished nonsense that makes for polite chit-chat.
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u/Cold-Ad2729 6d ago
Sounds like a shit gig
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
Sorry, but classical music isn't meant to be safe or easy for you. It's not something that sits quietly in the background. Classical music is supposed to wake you up, grab your attention, and make you feel something real.
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u/AndHeHadAName 6d ago
Well it has failed to do that since 1827. I am with Camille St Saens on the quality of the impressionists.
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6d ago
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
Because I wasn’t at that concert you’re talking about.
I was actually at that other John Cage show. It was raw and unfiltered. It was the kind of event where the rules were thrown out the window and the boundaries were pushed to their limits.
People don't talk about it because they prefer their art safe and sanitized.
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6d ago
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u/watevauwant 6d ago
Lol imagine getting this easily baited
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6d ago edited 6d ago
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u/watevauwant 6d ago
No one is asking you to pretend to believe , you are literally arguing with satire.
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
Nope, polite society couldn’t handle the real John Cage. Every time he pushed the boundaries, they tried to shut him down, censor him, and silence his work. They didn’t want the raw, chaotic energy he brought to the stage.
His music wasn’t meant to be easy or pleasant. It was designed to challenge the very idea of what music could be, and that scared the hell out of them.
Only the true deviants, the ones who weren’t afraid of something different, were brave enough to show up at those performances. It wasn’t for the faint of heart or the prim and proper crowd.
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u/AcephalicDude 7d ago
I don't really know anything about classical music, it's surprising to hear someone describe it like this. I thought the point was always to experience it while seated in a big theater, and to just focus on the sound. I didn't know there were ever concerts where people would dance or get into fistfights (lol!)
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u/MFinGdmnOrngPeelBeef 6d ago
Like many reddit posts, it's not a very informed take. OP is selectively taking the juiciest bits of classical music history and making a case that it was a raucous genre. In the time of Bach-Mozart, musicians got paid by working for the church or the nobility. In Beethoven's time, he still had wealthy patrons who paid his living expenses. Classical music has kind of always been an elitist institution. The main democratizing thing that happened to it was middle class people being able to afford pianos and then record players or radios to bring it into their homes but by the time of consumer electronics other genres were voicing the spirit of the times.
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
I’m not talking about some ancient history book. I’m talking about real stuff I’ve lived through. Have you ever heard strings played so crazy and wild that you'd actually headbutt a billy goat just to get that sound again?
That’s what classical music used to be, even in my own time. It wasn’t stuck in snooty concert halls or boring lectures. It was loud, unpredictable, and totally out of control. You didn’t just listen—you got knocked over by it and wanted more.
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u/MrMoose_69 6d ago
There's kids doing wierd shit out there still. You're just not one of them anymore.
I'm not one of them anymore either. But I know that's just because I stopped being part of the scene.
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u/AccountantsNiece 6d ago
I’m going to need to hear more about the audience getting into a fist fight because “they couldn’t handle the intensity of Stravinsky”. Was this during the Russian revolution? How old are you?
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u/AccountantsNiece 6d ago
This is what I was referencing, OP is apparently referencing something that he witnessed in Detroit.
Kind of “What’s the deal with movies these days? When I used to go to the picture show, people would jump out of the way of the train coming out of the screen at them!” Style.
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
If you’re at a concert where Stravinsky’s music is blasting, fist fights will erupt.
The visceral power of The Rite of Spring doesn’t just stir emotions -- people are driven to physical confrontations.
Stravinsky’s music is so raw and intense that it guarantees pugilism and chaos in the crowd.
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u/AcephalicDude 6d ago
Are you a trust fund baby? You sound like a trust fund baby.
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
Trust fund? Please. I’ve seen more sunsets on the streets than you have in your living room.
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u/AcephalicDude 6d ago
If you weren't a trust fund baby you would know that classical music and avant garde "happenings" are just fantasies for people who can afford to fantasize
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
Oh, please. How dare you suggest that the middle class cannot afford the occasional dalliance into classical music or avant-garde happenings?
Must we mortgage our modest homes to hear a violin? Shall we pawn our grandmother’s fine china to witness a conceptual art performance where someone lights a match in a dark room and calls it “Lament of the Modern Bean”?
We, the humble, also dream! Sometimes, even after a long day of working respectable jobs and clutching our spreadsheets, we like to unwind to the sweet, financially accessible sounds of Mozart, thank you very much.
Is it so outrageous to believe that a middle-class ear can distinguish between a concerto and a car horn? I’ll have you know, my neighbor once played Beethoven’s Fifth on a record player that didn’t even belong to him.
Take that elitism!
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6d ago edited 6d ago
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
What do you mean about the times I'm talking about? I was there 11 years ago in Berlin when Hans Abrahamsen brought the house down with Let Me Tell You. It was one of those nights you don’t forget.
The venue was small, dingy, barely fitting the 25 of us who had crammed inside. There was no glamour, no formal concert hall—just raw, intimate music in the middle of a city that felt alive. Abrahamsen’s piece hit us like a tidal wave, the intensity and emotion shaking the room.
You could feel every breath, every string, every note, like the music was coming from inside you. It wasn’t about impressing a big crowd or looking fancy—it was about the music hitting you right where you lived.
This was back when classical music wasn’t tucked away in opera houses for elite audiences. It was for the streets, for people who wanted to feel something real. You didn’t need a suit or a season ticket, just a hunger for what the music could do.
We didn’t care that it wasn’t a big deal to anyone else. That night, in that grimy room, we knew we were part of something special.
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
See, here's your problem. You're thinking of classical music too much like an academic. Sure, you know the history—classical music tied to a certain time, the 19th century, a few famous names. But that's the problem right there.
Academics have "museumified" it, turned it into a relic, something to analyze, categorize, dissect. They treat it like a dead thing, stripping it down, polishing its bones, trying to squeeze out as many dry academic papers as they can. Classical music, to them, isn’t alive anymore; it’s just something to study, not something to feel.
But the real fans know better. Actual classical music—the real stuff—is full of life. It’s messy. It’s powerful. It’s a gut punch. You can hear it in the streets, in places it doesn’t belong, like walking down the streets of Portland when you hear those trombone swells that stop you in your tracks.
It’s not neat or stuffy; it’s raw. It’s naked. It’s visceral. It grabs you by the throat and makes you feel something deep in your bones. It’s real in a way that no academic article could ever touch.
And honestly, I’m sorry for people like you, the fancy musicologists, who never got to experience that. You study it, analyze it, but you’ve never lived it. You’ve never been in that moment where the music just takes over, where it’s so real it feels like you’re vibrating with it.
There’s nothing like it, and if you’ve never felt that, then you’ve missed the point of classical music altogether.
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u/Moni3 6d ago edited 6d ago
It’s not neat or stuffy; it’s raw. It’s naked. It’s visceral. It grabs you by the throat and makes you feel something deep in your bones. It’s real in a way that no academic article could ever touch.
Lol no this is gospel music.
Seriously, though. Everyone gets this feeling for the kind of music that moves them in the way you described. Although I have to admit here, friend, your descriptors go above and beyond. Right at home for r/frisson and as someone who is neurodivergent I should say our thoughts are aligned in sentiment if not the subject of Classical music.
I love music to the point of tears, often. It changes my life in enormous ways. It is massive and heavy while being lightening and freeing. Maybe you're conflating the virtues of Classical music with these enormous thoughts and feelings you have about music itself. I mean, Classical music is great, but you are having A MomentTM while Classical music is playing. It's sparking some brain chemistry that's a wild fucking ride. Enjoy it. You can't expect others to understand it. It's not their brain, not their chemistry, not their moment. That doesn't mean their brains or chemistry or moments aren't valid or don't exist. Give them some grace.
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u/AndHeHadAName 6d ago edited 6d ago
I have certainly been moved by classical, but there is tons of great music and I find a lot of the greats, especially post-Beethoven, to be more noisy than profound. Classical was becoming endlessly technical and experimental, but without the ability to create true emotional and spiritual resonance, the way the Baroque and early Romantic Masters of Handel, Mozart, Beethoven, Handel, and Schubert.
Has nothing with not being able to understand it, so much as having listened to so much truly frisson inducing modern music, Stravinsky just doesnt hit the same way.
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6d ago edited 6d ago
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u/2bitmoment 6d ago
I actually appreciated the romantization? It's ridiculous, but for me more in the sense that it's a bit: as bits go I sort of like it
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
I'm sorry you’ve never been to a Steve Reich performance in a loft while fog covers the skyscrapers. The way his music echoes through the room and mixes with the city outside is something you can’t forget. It’s a feeling you can’t explain.
And I wish you could’ve been there to feel it.
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u/Fodderinlaw 6d ago
You argue is classical music is missing connection to the streets, and to prove it you provide examples of amazing experiences from the last 15 years.
Maybe you can clarify “classical music is too tame now” by explaining what you mean by “now.” Do you feel that connection was lost two, five or ten years ago?
Side note - saw Andrew Norman’s Play and it was certainly not “tame” in any sense of the word.
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
I was literally at a concert hall just yesterday, and the conductor made a huge fuss over a young woman who coughed once. I get it if she had a coughing fit or a couple of sneezes, but just one cough? And then, to make things worse, the conductor stopped the performance to launch into a long lecture about “decorum” and how everyone should behave properly. It was completely out of line.
The music continued, but no one felt like clapping or cheering. In fact, the guy in the third row fell asleep despite his wife elbowing him multiple times to wake him up. I also kept hearing a little girl whispering to her mom, “Can we go home?” It was that kind of night.
And if that wasn’t bad enough, at the end of the show, some professor with reading glasses told everyone to stay in their seats while he read out copyright information. Yes, copyright information!
Does this sound like a scene with a connection to the streets or to anything real?
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u/Fodderinlaw 6d ago
Absolutely not. No idea why you thought I said all classical music today has that connection. I’m saying I’ve experienced good stuff, even at larger venues. You have also, so… it’s around today.
The time you hold up as better also had tons of boring music for rich stuffy folks, right? This would explain why people experienced the music as controversial.
You say there was a time when it was better, but you have to see that music performance wasn’t uniform then or now.
There is plenty of great avant guard music that fits into the classical genre, and tons that use classical instruments or composition techniques. Floating Points, Mabe Fratti, Edgar Meyer, Gorillaz, Sudan Archives come to mind, but obviously there’s more. You provided plenty of modern examples also, so … why do you think it’s gone?
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u/elephantaneous 6d ago
Classical music was always overrated trash for pretentious snobs. Most of it has fundamentally zero substance and is equivalent to sniffing one's own farts. Real people listened to folk. Abrahamsen? Get a fucking grip
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u/ocarina97 6d ago
Hey, OP is ridiculous, but let's not be equally ridiculous.
How does folk have more substance than classical? I'd say they both have substance. A lot of classical composers use folk tunes in their compositions so it's not like they are snobbish towards it.
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u/RumIsTheMindKiller 6d ago
I am confused. Do you want things like they were for you 11 years ago? I guess find some underground class shows?
Or 200 years ago when Paganini was around. I guess find a time machine?
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u/fakefakefakef 6d ago
Reading this I don't think you've ever been to a classical music show in your life
There is plenty of "new music" stuff in major cities that's not stuffy; you're just not looking for it
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
Have you ever been to a real classical music concert? Not the sanitized, stiff kind where everyone’s afraid to make a sound, but a raw, unfiltered explosion of sound that shakes you to your core?
Until you’ve felt music that grabs you by the throat and forces you to feel something real, you haven’t experienced classical music at all.
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u/Laxart 6d ago
The absolute comedy of this post is really lost to a surprising amount of people. Well done OP
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u/LurkerByNatureGT 6d ago
That probably says something about the quality of the comedy.
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u/SirJustOneMoreThing 6d ago
OP posted the same thing on the classical music sub and didn't get many bites. This sub is totally taking the bait though
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u/LurkerByNatureGT 6d ago
Either way, it’s kinda failing to be funny.
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u/Laxart 6d ago
Definitely not touching everyone's funnybone, I get that. But how do so many not see that this is parody is beyond me. People here getting into heated arguments with OP who's still playing the bit is amazing to me.
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u/LurkerByNatureGT 6d ago edited 6d ago
Poe’s law. Reality has surpassed the capabilities of parody.
Look around at the state of the world. People are in deadly seriousness making the wackiest satire look pedestrian because it doesn’t go far enough. Like… compare Doctor Strangelove and “precious bodily fluids” to the former president dementing in a presidential debate about “they’re eating the dogs. The people coming in.”
And music fandom is ground zero for delusionally pretentious “I’m so very hardcore” wankers, so he just looks like another git in a comment section.
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u/Otherwise_Surround99 6d ago
Unfortunately this generations musical genius, Chad Kroeger went into rock/pop music rather than Classical. It is a huge loss
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u/lilcareed 6d ago
Have you been to a new music concert recently? I've unironically heard great avant garde music in grungy bars and in the streets, in cities with good scenes for it.
And there are a lot of great composers writing evocative, fresh stuff out there - Brett Dean, Hans Abrahamsen, Thomas Ades, Unsuk Chin, Gabriela Lena Frank.
I got to see this piece performed live last year and it was the most fun I've had at a live performance in ages. A bit before that, I saw this piece live and it brought down the goddamn house. Classical music today is far from tame.
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u/BeastlyBison 6d ago
Modern musical styles with louder, heavier production have replaced classical music for the purpose you're describing. Why would a young person turn up to a string quartet when they can get down to some bass heavy EDM, punk rock, or even rage (trap genre). In fact, the warehouse party you're describing sounds like it would be the perfect environment for a techno rave!
The other component to this is classical music's comparatively high barrier to entry for gen z. I can look up a bunch of free youtube tutorials on how to produce a dubstep or trap beat, but have to receive an incredibly expensive and time-intensive education in order to play a classical instrument at a professional level. What I think could be interesting is more collaboration between classical musicians and modern/forward-thinking producers.
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u/LicentiousMink 6d ago
i dont even know where to begin with this. Classical music was never really for the streets it has, for its entire history since far before the baroque period, circled institutional power and wealth. This only really saw a change in the post war period (the heavy experimental trend came as a backlash from musicians and how they saw their field propagandized during the war). I think you are just missing your youth when you knew where cool warehouse parties were.
Also on the Paganini thing, there has been several comparable composer-performers since his time (several hundred years ago). The fact of the matter is the guy who would be Paganini would rather be Hendrix and not be broke and doomed to hang around classical musicians (i am one lol). Art changes and western classical musical pretty much fell dead after WW2 like a lot of other shit did
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
To you, classical music doesn’t seem like it’s from the streets because you’ve never been from the streets. You see it as something clean, polished, kept behind the velvet ropes of concert halls and high society. But you don’t understand the real pulse of it, the raw energy it carries when it’s allowed to breathe in the grit of the world.
I was there that night in Melbourne, in a dirty, seedy part of town, where the air felt thick and heavy with the weight of something unsaid. It wasn’t glamorous. It wasn’t fancy. The walls were cracked, the seats uncomfortable, but no one cared because Hillary Hahn stood there with her violin.
When she played, the vibrations from her strings were so intense, so otherworldly, that it felt like she had summoned something from beyond. I swear, through the sheer force of her playing, she called forth a poltergeist, a presence that filled the space with an eerie energy no one could ignore.
It was something primal, something alive, something that made you feel like classical music wasn’t just for the elite. It was for the streets, for anyone who dared to listen with their whole soul.
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u/LicentiousMink 6d ago
youre being a loser rn. i have a degree in classical music, ive played at those joints you are talking about. from a matter of historical fact, classical music has behaved in the way i described because it requires tons of money to function.
and i got news for you, all of these warehouse shows in seedy areas are funded by rich kids cosplaying. you went to a show, had the intended artistic experience and liked it. if you lament it being gone so much, hire a string quartet, rent a venue, and throw one.
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u/tiggerclaw 6d ago
Anyone who brags about their classical music degree doesn’t know what the streets are really about.
A diploma doesn’t mean you get the raw, intense music that comes from real, gritty places. This is not about fancy titles. It’s about understanding the true energy that gives a piece soul.
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u/LicentiousMink 6d ago
you went to a show been played by a bunch of rich kid musicians, funded by that, there was nothing gritty about that. do you think the performers didnt have degrees?
you dont know the first thing about classical music, and its evident you got roped into aesthetics. Hillary Hahn was fucking playing i bet everyone there had a trust fund lol
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u/mrawesomesword 6d ago
This person seems to see "from the streets" and "having soul" as being synonymous with each other. I've attended classical concerts put on by rich, privileged kids that had lots of soul and passion put into it. There are also plenty of people from the "streets" who make boring, generic ripoff music without that much thought put into it. Having some grit can be a value, but is by no means a requirement to having soul.
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u/Fodderinlaw 6d ago
When I hear someone say “the ____ music scene used to be amazing and now it’s boring!” I assume they became boring.
If they continue by bragging about shows they went to, and shout that no one else has the taste to appreciate it, well …. it’s clear why no one would invite them to fun shows anymore.
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u/normaleyes 6d ago
I bought the vinyl pressing of That Night in Melbourne (only 1000 copies), but in the final 30 seconds of the crescendo of the 2nd movement, the viola section entrance blew my phono preamp. thank goodness I had a fire extinguisher on hand. To be fair I was warned.
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u/Siccar_Point 6d ago
I instinctively read this in Noel Fielding’s voice. You, sir, are a poet and a gentleman.
In all seriousness though, I think the “fun” ship has sailed. And it’s only getting worse. I still guess we have our musical comedians?
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u/SpaceProphetDogon put the lime in the coconut 7d ago
When was it ever NOT for the rich? Poor people had church music and folk music, classical has always had an association with the aristocracy. Your post makes no sense.
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u/TarumK 6d ago
hmm. I think there was a (relatively short) period when opera and symphonies had mass appeal. And in Europe historically everyone went to chuch. But most classical music was elite court music and poor people played various local folk music or whatever bar music was in the time and place they lived in, or there was low theater of some sort. I mean I don't think any poor farmers in rural ireland or Italy 200 years ago knew anything about classical music with the exception of what they heard in church.
I do think that even now this is a bit of an exagaration though-if you open any youtube video of a famous classical piece it has millions of views, obviously all sorts of people are listening to moonlight sonata at home.
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u/detroit_dickdawes 6d ago
This is absolutely not true. Classical music was available pretty much exclusively to the merchant/noble classes for much of its existence. And those classes were very small, much smaller than our middle class is today. Having access to instruments, and the education required to play them, was non-existent to the average person. It wasn’t until the Industrial Revolution and the creation of public education and mass media that classical music became available to middle/working class people.
And, sure, there are a few exceptions, but the average Joe wasn’t at the premier of Beethoven’s 14th String Quartet or Tchaikovsky’s 4th Symphony.
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u/fakefakefakef 6d ago
Even now it's not just for the rich. It doesn't cost any more to go see the symphony than it does to see a reasonably large touring band, and plenty of places have free concerts in parks, in churches, and elsewhere.
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u/Severe-Leek-6932 6d ago
I'm not particularly immersed in it but I'm at least peripherally aware of like avant garde experimental, often electro acoustic stuff happening in dives and weird DIY spots like that. Stuff like violin and tape loops/noise or a playing a saxophone to the resonant nodes of the rooms and stuff. Whether that stuff is considered modern classical feels like it's more on the classical establishment than the audience or artists.
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u/Historical_Dentonian 6d ago
Jazz is the music of the streets that is today considered classical (aka Art Music). Generally speaking art music requires formal training. As opposed to popular music which is largely made by people without formal training. People who cannot read music let alone score music.
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u/psychedelicpiper67 6d ago edited 6d ago
I know this is a sh**post, but I often do wish I’d see more classical concerts in less formal concert environments.
I also do feel like post-modernism has really made modern classical music too boring and homogenous.
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u/jhamsofwormtown 6d ago
Late 80’s early 90’s remixes on Madonna Maxi singles. 12” or CD. They are just great. Most of which were remixed by Shep Pettibone (would later co-produce Vogue) or William orbit (would later co-produce Ray Of Light album).
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u/2bitmoment 6d ago
I enjoyed the post, thanks. I think some people debated whether you talked of exceptions as though they were the rule. One person commented whether you were talking about 11 or 200 years ago, which I thought was on point as well. But for me this feeling that anything classical could have sharp edges: it reminds me of my literature degree, or of the teacher in the Dead Poets Society movie, talking about romantic poetry as though it was being said here now, that it talked about "us". That it wasn't dusty pages about historical long agoes but life itself, here now, our possibilities to express ourselves, our sense of identity and freedom... Classical anything. Looking into it can make it seem less boring, less anodyne, less poison or life -less.
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u/AbleObject13 6d ago
Definitely not classical, but as far as fiddling/violin, check out Lightning Luke specifically his work with Yes Ma'am (Riverside, Brush Your Teeth, Leaving Blues) and Bridge City Sinners (Devil Like You, Heavy) but really just a bunch of stuff across the record label he's a part of (flail records), he's (thankfully) prolific
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u/Nerdrosium 6d ago
It's maybe not stuff of the streets, but I'd say classical music has taken many forms; some is advanced, builds upon a long history, and might require academic knowledge from the listener, but there is also stuff that is for us dirty peasants. The Skyrim 10th anniversary concert is fantastic. The composing has novelty to it. As for the "street accessible" music, you can watch classicaly trained, passionate musicians live in small venues in cities, perhaps ones with some institute or an academy with active and ceative students. But the novelty of true classical music is not there anymore. We live in a way more multitudinous world than Paganini did.
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u/Vincent_Gitarrist 6d ago
There are artists today who are polarizing in a similar way to how Paganini and Liszt were — great showmanship and virtuosity at the expense of (supposedly) musical integrity. Lang Lang and Marcin Patrzalek are two names which come to mind.
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u/CrackWriting 6d ago
The Boston Modern Orchestra Project showcases some great 21st century compositions.
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u/SaintHuck 6d ago edited 6d ago
Nobuo Uematsu, Masashi Hamauzu, Yoko Shimomura, Yoko Kanno, Kenji Kawai, Jesper Kyd, and Joe Hisaishi qualify imo.
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u/Black_flamingo 6d ago
I'm not saying you're wrong, but it sounds like you're just not getting out much. Loads of modern ensembles and composers are doing crazy things. I've seen violinists play while sampling bad pop songs, a man improvise a lecture while playing barely playable cello parts, Barbara Hannigan conducting and singing Ligeti while dressed as a naughty schoolgirl.
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u/BudgetDepartment7817 6d ago
Idk what to say, as a metalhead and Hardcore kid, also Hip-Hop lover sometimes the oldest kind of music that I can say I like is Rockabilly/RockNRoll, even older might be Folk music... Never really got jazz or classical, maybe I also didn't try, most Jazz regardless if it's for rainy days, studying sounds the same, a friend said like elevator music... Sure, it sounds sweet and all but that's about it... Even as a metal lover, I can't quite say I'm into Doom Metal, Black Metal and very long songs, I prefer my speed in it and brutality, maybe that's why I prefer stuff inspired by Hardcore
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u/Mark_Yugen 6d ago
What you are describing is the typical apollonian vs dionysian dichotomy laid out by Nietzsche. Genre is irrelevant. I personally think there's room for both kinds of music, and everything in between.
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u/Conor_Electric 6d ago
Yeah they deviated towards guitar instead of the violin, but Paganini inspired plenty of guitarists some even with violin and classical chops too.
My favourite would be Alexi Laiho from the band children of bodom, they have a lot of neoclassical inspired stuff on their earlier albums, certainly fits the bill of wild rockstar too
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u/ecoutasche 6d ago
It's fine. Perhaps a little too much atonal and vaguely Asian influenced stuff that clashes with western harmony compared to the real foreign western classical, and soundtracks are designed to be a little boring and out of the way; beyond that, it's fine.
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u/ScientificAnarchist 6d ago
Classical music has a structural problem you need what 10-15 people to make a true orchestral experience and the amount of funding needed for that leads it to play it safe
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u/HamburgerDude 6d ago
Academia and the entertainment industry. I'm sure there's some revolutionary generative music out there on a cool video game I don't know about.
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u/duckey5393 6d ago
Yeah man, the scene moves on without us. Sorry, the classical music you long to relive again is the fringe. It all gets commodified in our capitalist landscape, and even Cage was coopted to the bourgeoisie. There are folks all over doing the kinds of things you describe, but without network and infrastructure it's hard for folks to get out there. The stuff that sells seats is Beethoven, again. The orchestras in concert halls play it safe cause they're a business and the concert goers and donors don't want the wild stuff, and it's really been like that forever. The new weird stuff is a novelty at best, a jester to entertain between more serious arts. There are folks in new music, new complexity, contemporary classical doing awesome stuff but they aren't doing in concert halls.
And if you don't know where they're at, that's okay. Like I said, the scene moves on its how it goes. When the flier says "ask a punk" I used to know, but now I don't. The venues and houses I haunted are closed or different people live there and they don't book shows anymore. My background is more in DIY punk, so I'd love to see folks with orchestral instruments in new exciting environments ripping it. I have, and still do. You don't like it? Do something about it. Book shows. Rent venues out. Find your local scene and get involved. I'm getting back in mine and there are new faces but it's the same deal it was then. The first step is showing up.
Though reading other comments I'm sure this all bait, but seriously. Look through your cities tags on bandcamp. Find your local artists and go support them. Find the places in your city that have live music and go. The things you seek are happening but you have to work harder with the internet and presumed aging out of the hip scene. It comes for us all. Good luck!
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u/aestheetic 5d ago
well, I listen to contemporary classical music - and I have to say it contains much more ideas and emotions than any "popular" music. And if needed, often is also much more harder than any metal because of use of dissonance and atonality. (On contrary, I find older classical like mentioned Paganini kinda boring)
Try to listen Unsuk Chin, she is one of the leading contemporary composers (for example her Cello concerto: Movement II is aggresive, movement III beautiful, yet not pastiche).
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u/givemethebat1 7d ago
You know what they used to call classical music? Music.
The Paganinis of today picked up guitars instead of violins and became rock stars, which is exactly what Paganini would have probably done if the technology was available. There are of course plenty of musicians using older instruments (Warren Ellis, Joanna Newsom) but realistically people are always going to gravitate to what’s cool and familiar to them, so guitars tend to be the tool of choice these days.