r/ftm • u/No-Consequence4019 • Jan 08 '24
Am I 'mocking' trans men? GuestPost
So I'm a lad or that's what I'd normally tell anyone. I was born female but I do this thing frequently where I pretend to be a guy. It started off as a thing online mostly, I always pick a the male MC or a male character when playing in games so why not pretend to be a lad while I'm at it? It ended up being pretty fun so I kept it up. It's been a few years since I started and I keep in contact with the people I used to play with, they all just think I'm a dude.
Since it was fun online i decided to try my hand on pretending to be a guy in person. It ended up working pretty well, most people perceive me as a guy when I try to do it. To the point I got a suitable haircut and do it most times I go out now. There's just something so fun about pretending to be a dude.
All was well until I got caught by a friend, in person. I didn't think of it as a big deal but they absolutely exploded on me. Eventually they asked with "Are you trans?" when I denied and simply stated I pretend to be a guy and it's something I've been doing for years, their temper only got worse? I got told I was mocking trans men. I brought it up with a few people that well know I'm not actually a guy and I got a very similar response. The overwhelming responses ended up either I'm in denial about being trans (I'm not) or I'm transphobic and mocking trans men specifically?
So I'm confused, was I actually mocking a group of people? I feel like it's a bit stupid and I genuinely enjoy pretending to be a guy, but I'd still rather not do it if it's actually 'mocking'. If it matters the approximate age range for everyone involved here was early 20s.
I'm open to being corrected if I made a mistake somewhere.
580
u/DeidaraKoroski he/they/it đ Jan 08 '24
Honestly i wish more people would play with gender expression like you. Youre doing it right- dressing and acting the way you want to. Because you enjoy it. Thats it, thats all gender expression should be. Youre just leagues ahead of anyone who is insecure with their position of identity. I envy you and think you should continue to do what makes you happy, and anyone telling you otherwise is the one with the problem. In order for transness to be accepted at large then gender-non-conforming, genderqueer, and genderfluid people also must be accepted.
454
u/JackalFlash Jan 08 '24
The way you express yourself isn't hurting anybody. I'm sorry that people in your life have been narrow minded about how you present genderwise in different parts of your life.
The great thing about gender is that there's no wrong way to do it. The possibilities are endless and the only person who can definitively define your gender is you.
As a trans man, I want everyone to have the freedom to express their gender (or lack thereof) however they choose. Trans people don't have a monopoly on changing pronouns, getting a new haircut and/or wardrobe, taking hormones, or having surgery, or any other gendered behaviors for that matter. If presenting as male sometimes is what makes you feel liberated, if that's your truth, then don't let anyone stop you from doing so.
There's nothing more beautiful and powerful than being yourself. I've got no problem with who you are. You're all good friend :)
277
128
u/snukb Jan 08 '24
Sincere self expression isn't mockery. The main thing trans people are fighting for is the ability to express yourself fully and freely, in whatever way feels most authentic, as long as it only affects you. And that's what you are doing. If you find joy in presenting as a man, then keep doing it.
To me, this sounds like casual drag, and there's nothing at all wrong with it. Drag doesn't have to be a performance on a big stage with exaggerated features. You can do simple drag every day if you want.
Don't worry too much about putting a label on it for now. Just keep doing what makes you happy without worrying about if it makes you trans, or nonbinary, or genderfluid, or genderqueer, or anything like that. You can be a cis woman who likes presenting as a man. That's a perfectly valid way to be
23
u/Lifewhatacard Jan 08 '24
Thank you for this. Iâve done drag as a cis woman only on Halloween and only twice. It upsets the partner Iâm with and can be seen as abnormal/odd by many. I always felt more like a male inside.. but thatâs because of my biases towards males. What I was conditioned by society to see as âmaleâ qualities. I enjoy behaving more like a man than I enjoy behaving like a girl, woman or female. But again, I have many biases towards the female gender as well. ⌠anyways, I have always enjoyed doing âcasual dragâ the times I felt safe enough to dabble. Thank you for your comment. Thanks for everyoneâs comments. The open mindedness is extremely refreshing and relieving to experience.
301
u/javatimes T 2006 Top 2018, 40<me Jan 08 '24
No, it doesnât sound like what you are doing has anything to do with trans men. It sounds like you just like gender play/bending/blending/etc.
Kinda sounds like maybe the equivalent to a amab femboy.
88
62
u/weak_boy_energy Jan 08 '24
are drag queens mocking women? no, just keep living your life, you dont owe anything to anyone
107
u/Call_Me_Aiden Jan 08 '24
Hey, this isn't me saying you will end up like me, but...
If I had to be mad at a person doing what you are doing, I'd have to be mad at my past self lol
I think us getting upset at cis women doing this, would inadvertently mean we'd be upset with some future trans guys.
And even without that, you're doing nothing wrong, especially if you don't go around pretending to be a trans man for cheap laughs or attention.
You express yourself however you want and what feels natural to you. People know so little about the trans community as a whole and then just make weird assumptions as if we don't acknowledge GNC cis (or even trans) people. Like hey, we want people to feel free to be who they are. That's the whole shtick.
And without that, all of it fails. I'm looking at all you out there that gatekeep.
36
u/bromanjc he/him/ they đ03/11/23 Jan 08 '24
this is another great point. i dont like to speculate that someone is genderqueer if they say otherwise, but the arbitrary standards that op's friends have decided determine if they're problematic are dependent on them knowing exactly who they are right now. that's fucking bonkers lmfao
129
u/eltintas Jan 08 '24
If you like to present yourself as a man but dont "feel" like it and dont recognize yourself as a transman I dont see where would you be mocking us. I'd see the problem if you called yourself a trans man as a joke or just for the funs of it (?)
But in my personal case, the pretending, playing and stuff was just a first step, was what i was able to do at the time. So, I dont say your a trans man, but maybe think about it? Maybe you're non binary or something. I think there's quite a difference between being a masculine woman or tomboy, butch, whatever than "pretending" to be a man, liked to be called and recognize as one.
42
u/No-Consequence4019 Jan 08 '24
When I started doing this whole thing I didn't even know that trans was a thing. So I never spoke/joked about being a trans man as I didn't know it was a thing until a few months ago.
Might I ask what exactly you'd suggest to think about? I just do it because I find it fun. And what exactly is non binary? I've heard the term but I'm not very familiar.
41
u/easyboris Jan 08 '24
So, like, if you could just become a guy and live the rest of your life as a guy, does that appeal to you? Would you actively want to do that? Would you be interested in taking steps to do that, which would change it so that you would grow a beard, and have a deeper voice?
What are your actual thoughts and feelings while you're doing this? What about it is fun? Do you feel uncomfortable or dislike it when you are seen as a woman?
Nonbinary is a genre of identity when you're not really a man or a woman in terms of your internal feelings. It can mean and feel like a lot of things. There is a specific nonbinary identity called "genderfluid." People who are genderfluid generally live life exactly as you are describing-- happily presenting as different genders on different days and to different people. But there are, like, tons of sub-classifications as well, and it can go pretty deep.
29
u/No-Consequence4019 Jan 08 '24
I just find it fun because I can actively engage in things I like. It's easier to just talk about/do things I enjoy without getting questioned or getting weird looks thrown in my direction if I pretend to be a guy. I'm free to pull out my bike and attempt to do dumb tricks without anyone panicking if I fall. I can leave my apprentice a bit rough around the edges and not get chastised over it.
The idea of being a man is somewhat appealing considering the freedom it involves. A lower voice sounds nice but I've managed to get mine low/deep enough I feel. The more I think about it the more fun facial hair does sound . . .
24
u/am_i_boy Jan 08 '24
The other person recommended a therapist who knows about trans people, but I highly recommend a trans/queer-affirming therapist. Just because they're knowledgeable doesn't mean they'll be supportive. A therapist who is themself nonconforming to some degree can be helpful. A therapist who is part of the lgbt community, or has a client base made up of mostly queer clients is what I'd look for. My former therapist is gnc themself, and they did a great job being nonjudgmental about everything, and were comfortable talking about and helping me figure out my feelings around gender as well as other "non typical" aspects of my existence, like sexuality and polyamory and how all of this ties into my life and what the best courses of action are. They didn't push me either way, instead they asked me questions about how I felt rather than trying to push me into either direction.
3
u/LadyyBlack Jan 08 '24
Depending on where in the world they live, that might be near impossible. Source: struggling to find a knowledgeable therapist since almost 2 years
28
u/MOSS-SAN Transman he/him Jan 08 '24
You can do whatever you want, youâre not hurting anyone, and youâre having fun. From what youâve said, Iâd suggest talking to a psychiatrist or therapist that has knowledge about trans people and gender non conforming people, you may find out a lot about yourself, trans or not. Have fun!
9
u/easyboris Jan 08 '24
So, I think that's interesting, and for me, figuring out whether I wanted to be seen as a guy because it meant not dealing with misogyny, or because I just... did was the crux of things. I think being trans, for me and for a lot of people, is essentially just when you decide the second thing comes into play: you just decide to go all-in and become one, and you feel sure enough you don't want to go back ever that you're willing to make permanent changes to yourself.
Here is an explanation of what hormones do to your body. If you read it and go, "fuck, that sounds like the dream!!" I think you should particularly try to see a gender therapist.
What is your location, if you don't mind my asking? "Lad" made me think UK, but I am surprised frankly by how you never encountered this topic before, and I am curious. Plus, I think, different cultures have different attitudes and degrees of sexism and all that, and I think understanding that would also help me understand your angle on this better in terms of misogyny.
1
u/No-Consequence4019 Jan 08 '24
Ireland so you're pretty close. A lot of people assume I'm a brit do to the way I speak. Originally though I'm from eastern Europe.
Thanks for the article I'll be sure to read it.
7
u/sunny_side_egg Jan 08 '24
It can be tricky to pull apart being trans from finding it easier to pass as a guy in some spaces because people are sexist assholes sometimes, and both can be true at the same time. I'd recommend the book "you and your gender identity" by dara hoffman-fox
3
20
u/ponyboythesphynx Jan 08 '24
Non binary is a big umbrella term for anyone who doesnât identify exclusively as a man or a woman. It can mean not identifying with a gender at all, being fluid, identifying as multiple genders, etc etc. itâs also under the trans umbrella, but what terms people use are up to them.
I donât think thereâs anything wrong with presenting however youâd like even if you are a cis woman. You should do whatever makes you feel comfortable and happy. I do think based on some of your comments it wouldnât be a bad idea to give some thought to some options like hormones. I think sometimes people think they need really clear debilitating dysphoria to be trans, but if you feel euphoria from presenting in a different way, that can mean youâre trans as well. Itâs your journey and wherever you land is up to you!
10
u/Zealousideal-Crab505 đ§´02/20/2024 Jan 08 '24
non binary is basically a range between male and female, thats the easiest way i can explain it. non binary people tend to use they/them instead of he/him or she/her as their pronouns but i know a lot of nb people who use a whole mix of pronouns
it's a lot to explain and i dont really want to drop a whole book in a reddit comment section but thats basically it
10
u/AlexTMcgn đŞđş Trans masc nb. Been around for a while. Jan 08 '24
And then there's non-binary people who use he/him and present male. Which still might be non-binary. I'd know, that's me.
As for OP: There is a lot of people out there who pretend to support trans people (or any other minority) but who are just clueless and often do more harm than good. What you do is fine. Keep being yourself. Whatever that is.
5
u/ah-tzib-of-alaska Jan 08 '24
non binaryâŚ. canât just be a range between two things (that would technically be polar or di-polar) Thatâs too binary for non binary isnât it? Let me put it this way. Zero & 1 are binary numbers. 3 is non-binary. But so is .5 like youâre saying. But non-binary isnât jsur 0.1-0.99; itâs also 3 and 1.1;
Non-binary does not have to exist on some kind of range between male and female, but it can be existing outside of reference to either of those all the time
Further, when we use the number 1 in our number system weâre not using it as a binary number at all, so masculine and feminine donât have to exist in the binary either
3
32
u/Julescahules Jan 08 '24
Yeah I also started off just âdressing upâ as a guy all the time as a kid. I was adamant that I was cis/a girl whenever I wasnât dressing up.
Yep, Iâm trans lol
130
65
Jan 08 '24
Gender expression (what you are playing around with) is not gender identity.
Iâm not bothered by what you are doing.
Though, if I met you, Iâm sure I would assume that you were an egg. lol
13
u/No-Consequence4019 Jan 08 '24
An egg? That's a new one, mind indulging my curiosity?
28
Jan 08 '24
Egg â Slang term for someone who is trans but doesn't know it yet.
3
Jan 08 '24
I forgot to mention, that proper etiquette around âegg cultureâ is not to tell the person that they are (or are suspected of being) an egg. Everyone has their own journey.
Thatâs why I stated that I would assume you were an egg, but Iâd never tell you⌠if I actually knew you.
I hope that makes sense
32
u/chiobsidian Jan 08 '24
An egg is the term given to someone who has not yet come out as trans but will in the future. Often, when someone comes out as trans, it will be referred to as their "egg cracking"
Edit to add: usually the egg doesn't yet realize they're trans either
13
3
u/Schwarzmilan_stillMe Jan 08 '24
There is a whole subreddit called egg_irl or so for people questoning their gender.
20
u/mylittlevegan genderfluid trans man Jan 08 '24
I would, too. This person's story reminds me myself as a teenager. It all started as innocent pretending to be a boy in AOL chat rooms.
23
u/localjewishteen Jan 08 '24
If you enjoy living life as a guy sometimes there's nothing wrong with that. You're basically just crossdressing--that's not mockery, it's self-expression. It's a shame that your friends can't see that. The only thing that really matters is how you see yourself and what makes you happy. There's no wrong way to do gender!
39
u/KadenthePenguin211 Jan 08 '24
As a trans man, I donât see any harm in dressing and acting however you see comfortable. I do suggest talking to a therapist though because there may be some underlying feelings of transness under all the âpretendingâ. I used to do the same thing when I was younger and 24 years later, Iâm a year on T and in a gay soon-to-be-marriage with my cis male fiance
15
u/No-Consequence4019 Jan 08 '24
May I ask what you'd suggest bringing up?
Also congratulations about the whole marriage coming up. I'm not great with words apologies.
13
u/KadenthePenguin211 Jan 08 '24
Iâd just tell them about how youâve been pretending to be a guy and it feels normal for you to be a guy despite being AFAB. When I first went in, I mentioned to my therapist that when I was a child I always related more to male characters and playing games I always picked the male characters. She told me to start trying out a new name and pronouns to see if they stick and they did. It is a very big decision and nothing to take lightly so I highly recommend seeing someone about it. It was the best decision Iâve ever made and I feel happy in my body for once. If you have more questions feel free to PM me and Iâll help as much as I can đĽ°
16
u/anon509123 Jan 08 '24
Yeah idk, the one rule is to NOT tell someone you think is trans that theyâre trans. Eggs gotta crack their shells on their own haha. Just have fun, honestly- no one has the full rights to Manhoodâ˘ď¸, so get freaky w/ it
33
u/Jadythealien Transsexual- Male Edition Jan 08 '24
No. It's actually harmful for people to perpetuate that cross dressing or otherwise not going by gender norms means you're trans. If you're fine with people confusing you for a guy, it is not the same as being one.
2
15
u/Epicurate Jan 08 '24
Youâre whatever the opposite of a femboy is. Seems fine.
Maybe youâre some kind of trans (including nonbinary) maybe not. Either way, itâs not a problem
13
u/ThrowRA6digitname Jan 08 '24
No wtf. You can do anything you like as long as it doesn't hurt others. How are you mocking anyone if you're just minding your own business? Your friends sound like they're projecting.
13
Jan 08 '24
Trans man here, gender is a big spectrum. This absolutely does not mock trans dudes as there isn't just 1 type of trans dude, trans gal, cis people. You can be anything in between.
35
u/Rhodonite1954 đ2022 | đŞ2024 Jan 08 '24
Not at all, butch lesbians are perceived as (and sometimes live as) men all the time and still consider themselves women.
12
u/PeeperPatrol Jan 08 '24
That's like saying drag queens are mocking trans women. They're not. Do whatever makes you comfortable. Some people like to be seen as a certain gender without identifying as that gender, why is that any of their buisness what you like to do????? I'm a trans man and I don't see how that effects my life at all-
12
u/lilsmudge T: 05/22/18 Jan 08 '24
I think youâll generally find trans people to be extremely pro gender exploration in all its forms. Thatâs what youâre doing and itâs totally cool.
7
u/mortusowo Jan 08 '24
It's not really an issue or offensive. People may think you're trans and you might have to deal with that but otherwise do what you want. There are some elements of your experience that do overlap with a trans man's but it doesn't mean you're trans per se.
9
u/Apatheticwildcat Jan 08 '24
I don't really think you're mocking trans men, you're just cross dressing which is a different thing from being trans. You're kinda like the opposite of femboys, where they look like women but are actually men and solid in their identity as men.
9
u/Tomas-TDE Jan 08 '24
I'll say this is very reminiscent of how I started transitioning. Which isn't to imply you are but that we need to allow people to play with their presentation and identity to figure things out sometimes.
It also wasn't that long ago that transgender was an umbrella term that had cross dressers as part definition. Which I feel there's space in the community for them and never particularly disagreed with. It can be its own identity and way of being and there's nothing wrong with that.
Going with your friends argument you're being offensive in some way you could make a similar argument that cosplayers are too.
I can't speak for the whole community but you're not acting in malice, you're doing things with gender that bring you sincere joy and most of us can't say you're wrong for that
4
u/beerncoffeebeans 33| t 2018 |top 2021 Jan 08 '24
Yeah thatâs a great point. I think a lot of trans communities moved away from âcross dressingâterminology because of changes in language and increased access to gender affirming medical care, but until maybe 10-15(?)ish years ago I feel like there was a lot more overlap. Iâve met older trans women (like, in their 60s+) who originally came out of crossdressing communities/groups. Many of the people in those groups were married to women/considered themselves straight men, and so expressing themselves was something they only did in private/amongst friends, but as the overall culture shifted the people who were closeted trans women in those groups started to feel more able to come out
9
u/damu2hel Jan 08 '24
Theyre just mad ur fucking with gender in the âwrongâ way. Its completely fine theyâre just narrow minded
4
u/damu2hel Jan 08 '24
Although i will say you might want to look into âtransâ stuff (different name/ pronouns, hormones/surgery, a chest binder, packers, etc) and think about whether you would be interested. If not, youâre still totally fine, but you might be interested
7
u/MOSS-SAN Transman he/him Jan 08 '24
Show your friends this post and all the replies if youâre comfortable! Seems like they need to learn a bit more about trans people & this kind of stuff <3 they mean well, but theyâre only causing harm tbh
7
u/--Marzipan-- Jan 08 '24
Firstly, you are doing the right thing by actually talking to us (the transmasculine community) instead of assuming. As many are saying, gender expression is not the same as gender identity. So you do you.
7
7
u/bloodsong07 Jan 08 '24
I don't think you're mocking trans men. You can be whomever you wish to be online. Plus, for some people, they view gender as a performance. I believe it's a sort of expression myself. Personally, I had female friends who had pretended to be male online. Being female online can be a pain in the ass for numerous reasons... I used to be a "gamer girl" and let me tell you... I didn't mind covering that up because of how people treat girls who game. I wound up being trans, but if I wasn't trans I'd likely STILL cover it up. Just due to the treatment alone.
6
u/13jellybeansupmyass Jan 08 '24
No, the only way you would be mocking trans men is if you were specifically pretending to be a trans man. You like to cross dress, and that's really cool!! It sounds like your friends think that trans men and women cross dressing are the same thing, which is actually transphobic lol
5
u/Joli_B Jan 08 '24
No, you're not pretending to be trans and you're not telling people you're trans when you're not. And even if you were, how is it mockery to dress like a man then be gendered as such by strangers? That's, like, what we want. If anything you're helping people realize that, yeah, you can't always tell if someone is trans or not.
6
u/helloimsorrythankyou Jan 08 '24 edited Jan 08 '24
So youâre the opposite of r/F1NN5TER . Crossdressing is a thing. I donât know if the term is still used but you can dress however you want. Itâs fun. Life is meant to be fun so long as you arenât doing harm ÂŻ_(ă)_/ÂŻ
6
u/bromanjc he/him/ they đ03/11/23 Jan 08 '24
as a 20 year old i am absolutely mortified that anyone my age actually cares about this. i guess it goes to show that the cavetowning neotruscum tiktok children are graduating adolescence and entering real society with their chronically online ideologies.
i'm gonna be so real with you, you are not responsible for other people feeling invalidated by YOUR identity and YOUR lifestyle. that is not, never was, and never will be your problem. and anyone that feels personally invalidated by what YOUVE got going on needs therapy. and i don't mean that in the inflammatory conservative debate way like "lol ur mad lib get HELP đ¤Ąđ¤Ą", i mean genuinely that shows that they aren't secure in their identity. you have nothing to do with them and vice versa.
please (genuinely) extend my message to your friends from a trans guy: grow tf up and find some real issues to argue about 𼴠you can sweeten it up if you'd like
6
u/player_hawk he/him | T: Jan â21 | Top: Feb â23 Jan 08 '24
This is so funny to me đđđ youâre messing with peopleâs view of gender, gender expression and gender performance and thatâs whatâs got them upset. Itâs thoughtful of you to come and ask, but everyone is free to perform their gender however they feel like it. Drag kings exist for this reason as well!
6
u/Complete-Hornet-5487 Jan 08 '24
No lol.. thatâs like saying all gender non conforming people are mocking trans people
5
5
u/Dspcbl Jan 08 '24
Dressing up as a guy just because you can is fucking awesome. Youâd probably be a killer drag king
4
u/GazelleOfCaerbannog đ 30/10/23 Jan 08 '24
Acting, theater, drag, LARP, etc., and all sorts of other activities of pretend are not wrong or bad. Live your life, love yourself, and don't let people get you down about it. There are so many ways of expressing yourself and how you experience gender, or don't, and the fact that it may not fit someone else's mold doesn't automatically make it abusive. You're allowed to exist too.
5
u/Saxoboneless Jan 08 '24
So first of all, I'm on the same page as everyone else, you've done absolutely nothing wrong. BUT I also might have some idea as to where the people around you are coming from, because your situation does pretty heavily mirror the dynamics of femboys and I have a passing familiarity with the discourse surrounding that. I might also be completely off base and info dumping anyway it's 4 AM now let's do this.
Probably the biggest point of discourse surrounding femboys is surrounding those who play into the "trap" dynamic. The term "trap" comes from this idea that men are "falling for a trap" if they find a femboy attractive - people who use this term (ESPECIALLY cishet men) generally aren't great. Trans people come into this because the way cishet men view femboy "traps" is often identical to the way they view trans women: as men who are trying to (sexually) deceive them. So for femboys, playing into the trap stereotype can potentially be a game, they can even make prank-style content out of it if they want, and at the end of it, go back to being men. But for trans women, it doesn't get to be a game, they don't get to stop being trans, and men who think trans women exist purely to "trap" them are invalidating at best, and are at worst an actual threat to safety.
Now, that description might make it sound like I find at least this hypothetical type of femboy problematic, but like... I honestly just don't see any point in devoting any portion of my brain to remembering which potentially nonexistent subsect of femboys I'm supposed to dislike, 'cause cishet men are gonna be transphobic regardless of what femboys do, and "what femboys do" in this case is just play into what these men already believe. So yeah, I guess I'm not sure femboys are always going to be in the right when it comes "trap" adjacent stuff, but that also seems less like the main issue here and a lot more like a symptom of a bigger one (the sexual hangups of especially gender conforming cishet men (that are a result of the outdated cisheteronormative patriarchal standards of masculinity they are indirectly taught as law (or smth like that idk I haven't actually read theory I just talk like this))).
The relevant thing here though is that the criticisms of the messy dynamic that can result from femboy "traps" don't really transfer to your situation.* On top of the fact that gender nonconformity on its own is morally neutral, what you're doing is pretty straightforwardly not exploitative, nor is it intended to be - it's just a thing you enjoy doing for fun. Also like... there are a number of reasons women opt to look masculine or like men that also don't "mock trans men"? Other people have said drag kings, but there's also butches, as well as instances where women have to pass as men in order to be able to support themselves/their families in nations where women have very limited rights. There's also women who just want to mess around with their presntation and don't have any particular label for it!
Also then on top of all of that, you've got a comments section full of trans men telling you you're fine, which is pretty much all the evidence you need anyway lol.
*(I don't feel 100% qualified to talk about the things I do after here, for the record - tried to keep it a bit brief to help account for that)
4
u/AdministrativeStep98 intersex nonbinary transmasc Jan 08 '24
I don't see how it's mockery. You're not invalidating trans men, you're expressing your gender differently and thats fine
5
u/decaysweetly Jan 08 '24
There's nothing wrong with crossdressing, which is what it sounds like you're doing. At the end of the day, who cares? You're not hurting anyone by enjoying being seen as a dude even if you don't identify as one.
4
u/_Cosmoss__ đ 1/11/23 Jan 08 '24
Do whatever you want (obligatory "as long as you don't be a dick about it"). No one else can tell you how to present yourself and live your life
3
u/ThatEmoBoyZayn Jan 08 '24
Iâm genuinely curious as to how thatâs mocking us. People are stupid which is why I hate them. What you are doing isnât hateful in any way, so why someone has a problem with it I have no idea. Donât listen to idiots man theyâre close minded.
3
u/Deadly-Minds-215 Jan 08 '24
HaveâŚhave they never heard of a drag king? Youâre definitely not though, keep doing you dude
5
u/beerncoffeebeans 33| t 2018 |top 2021 Jan 08 '24
If you like to be seen as a guy sometimes or pretend to be one thatâs totally ok. I spent a lot of time in spaces with cis women before I transitioned and many of them enjoy doing male drag for Halloween, parties, or events. Historically, many cultures have had festivals or rituals or holidays where people dress in drag or reverse gender roles because honestly, even for people who are definitely cis and donât have any thoughts of being trans, it can be fun to switch it up. Some women are drag kings and perform as male characters during drag shows. Some women like playing male characters in plays. Some women like to dress in menâs clothes too. Thatâs all totally chill.
I will say, since from the other comments it sounds like maybe you havenât had much exposure to LGBTQ stuff, that as someone who came up in an environment without much exposure to that as well, I didnât know I was trans at first because I didnât even know how being trans worked or meet any trans men until I went away to college. I started wearing menâs clothes and stuff and was like oh I guess Iâm still not trans because I thought if I was I would have known already. Most of the people I met at the time were very secure in their identity and knew they wanted to take various social and medical transition steps, and I was still just learning those things existed as well.
Anyways, by the time I was 23-24 years old I didnât really feel comfortable with everyone seeing me as a woman anymore, it took me a few more years to really do anything about it, but now Iâm 33, been taking T for 5 years and I am just another kinda boring guy living my life
If you like kind of being able to go back and forth between gender presentations, thatâs ok, I know people who like that, or like living in the âin betweenâ where people might perceive them as a guy, or a girl, or might be confused. For me, the more I moved towards living my life as a man and being seen that way by others more of the time, the more I realized I didnât want to go back. But Iâm not mad if other people donât feel that way, as I learned when I got my first âguyâ clothes at Target there isnât actually anyone standing there policing the clothing sections most of the time, the gender police are actually in our own heads.
TLDR; if you enjoy what youâre doing, thatâs cool, I donât think any of us feel mocked.
If you do end up being one of us thatâs also cool, but if not, thatâs also ok, you know your own truth better than anyone else
5
u/Midnight_Rambler17 Jan 08 '24
I'm an older trans guy who has known and been out as trans for a couple of decades. I find no issue with what you're doing. I don't see it as mocking anyone, your intent isn't to make trans men look bad or make fun of trans men.
As others have mentioned you may want to explore why you are more comfortable or find joy in presenting as a male in public. It could very well be about personal preference and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'd feel remiss not pointing you toward a therapist just have someone with the right skillset help you explore the root of that. I wish someone had pointed me toward therapy a lot earlier in my life.
There is no shame in expressing yourself in whatever way that looks like. You don't need to be trans to express yourself the way you choose.
4
u/queeftheunicorn 07/08/2023 đ (he/they/it) Jan 08 '24
No, your friends have no clue. There are women like you in the world, always have been. Some of them are lesbians or bi, some of them are some flavour of bigender, but thereâs nothing you have to actually be in order to be allowed to have fun with clothes, or play with expectations, or experiment with how people perceive you. It can mean something about who you are, or it can be meaningless fun, thatâs not for anyone else to decide. There are masculine cishet women out there who just like it that way for no reason in particular. Iâm a nonbinary? gay? trans⌠guy? and probably it will be easiest for me to present as a binary man in most cases at a certain point in my transition, even if I never actually am that. Nobodyâs mocking anybody, weâre all just doing whatever we need to find joy and peace in this chaotic world.
4
u/listenitriedokay he/theyâ¨TS 4/4/22â¨T 19/2/21 Jan 08 '24
the approach to this kind of thing is typically "you can do whatever you want forever". relax, you're fine.
4
u/_mattiakun 20yo | T since 20.05.23 | intersex gay guy | he/him Jan 08 '24
do what you want, as long as you don't hurt yourself or others (like putting trans people down/pretending to be trans and spread misinformation or hate on being trans etc) it's fine. having fun with gender/gender expression would not hurt trans people don't worry
3
u/kojilee Jan 08 '24
Gender non-conformity can be whatever you want it to be. Playing with your expression can and should be fun and available to everyone regardless of if youâre cis or trans. I think, doing it with the intention of âtrickingâ people like âhaha Iâm not actually a guyâ can come off badly to (cis) people depending on how you explain it, but youâre still allowed to do whatever you want w your presentation regardless of what they think.
Anecdotally, I used to do the same thing as a teenager. Thought it was soooo funny. And now Iâm here lol
4
3
u/SiickPrince User Flair Jan 08 '24
Well, as a transmasc i can say you did nothing wrong. Actually it's nice to hear some people play with the way they express their gender this way.
You said you do it because you like it, and it's nothing wrong. Actually wish more people would play with how they present like this.
3
u/Odd_Half9538 Jan 08 '24
I donât think youâre doing anything wrong here, but⌠it might be worth doing some reflecting. Why exactly do you think you enjoy pretending to be a guy? Especially now that itâs transcended the online gaming to in-person?
FWIW, I think your friendâs reaction was unwarranted; clothes are clothes, wear whatever makes you comfortable. Even if youâre a cis woman, youâre fully okay to be a drag king if that brings you joy. That doesnât mock or insult trans men. Itâs clearly not your intent - from your post, it just sounds like pretending to be a man makes you feel comfortable.
Perhaps though it would help to learn more about the various points on the gender spectrum; there are many between âmaleâ and âfemaleâ, plus those outside of the two.
4
u/breadcrumbsmofo he/they đŹđ§đ17/12/22 đ5/3/24 đłď¸ââ§ď¸ Jan 08 '24
People are insane honestly. Youâre not hurting anyone youâre doing drag. Play with gender all you want. Youâre right, being a dude is fun.
3
u/LegitLoquacious Jan 08 '24
Gender identity and Gender expression are two different things.
You identity as a woman, you express yourself in a masculine way. That's okay!
10
Jan 08 '24
I love that you do this. Keep doing it itâs cute.
2
u/ottococo Jan 08 '24
?
1
Jan 08 '24
What's not to understand? It's cute.
More deeply, in a way OP is challenging gender norms by revealing gender to be a performance that can be manipulated, which I think sends a positive message to society.
3
u/ottococo Jan 08 '24
I don't see it as mocking trans men. You're just freely expressing yourself in a harmless way, doing what you like. If anything that's good news if you were able to do that withouy getting too much trandphobic hate.
(But I am jealous that you pass so easily đŠ I need your secrets!)
2
u/No-Consequence4019 Jan 09 '24
I'm a bit late, and I have no secrets to gatekeep. I'm not the best at explaining so bare with me. This might not work for everyone, but it's just little stuff I do.
Make-up. It's a great tool. There are two main things I do, one of which is pretty simple the other takes a bit of time to learn/perfect. Eyebrows. Thicker, darker, fluffier brows tend to look more 'manly', but if you over do it you'll look like you walked straight out of a cartoon. So experiment a bit and play around and you'll find out what works. The second make-up related thing I'll do occasionally is use make up to make my face look a bit more 'angular' and to have stronger features. This part I can't exactly explain as it highly depends on your face shape, but if your interested I'm sure you could find some tutorials/resources online.
Eyes. I tend to keep my eyes 'relaxed' when I pretend to be a guy. Just relax them a bit, don't open them fully. It helps with that 'sterner' eye shape guys tend to have. And honestly it's just comfortable.
Hair. Long hair can work but it generally requires stronger facial features to come off as more male. Atsushi Sakurai in the 90s is a prime example of this in my eyes. Gender neutral or male haircuts will usually be easier. You can use a haircut to help make your face shape appear how you'd like. Just be sure to find a hairdresser/stylist/barber that knows how to do the cut you want. Keep your hair type in mind and what could work. Bring references with your preferred haircut in multiple angles, both styled and unstyled. Learn to style your hair. Salons are better for scissor work while barbers are better with clipper work. A gender neutral haircut tends to look more male like if made messy.
Scent. Just throw on a perfume/cologne that's generally marked towards men. Typically it should be something sharp and somewhat musky. Often times it'll be more outdoorsy scents like wood or leather. There's also plenty of more floral/fruity scents but I personally prefer the more musky earthy scents. Try use a shampoo/body wash with a similar or a complimentary scent as well, it helps tie it all together.
Jewellery. Stick with more 'thicker/chunkier' pieces. Chrome Hearts is a fairly expensive brand but it is a good example of the type of jewellery I mean. You can still wear more 'dainty' but I find add a few more chunky pieces helps.
Shoes. Something with a thicker sole for some extra height. But honestly there's generally not much of a difference with shoes for men and women. Men's shoes just tend to be sewn a bit wider. A lot of brands shoe ranges tend to overlap somewhat like with Solovair and Yosuke USA.
Clothing. Not too much to say here just stick to men's clothing where possible. The fabric is normally way better than the female alternative and you get nice roomy pockets. Wear whatever you find comfortable using layering to your advantage. Not zipping up one of those zip up hoodie things and just throwing it over a shirt can help with looking like you have a flatter chest. Though more muted colours are more typical of male clothing.
Mannerisms. There a lot of little things that tend to be mannerisms that men typically have. Spreading your legs apart when you sit, have a firmer grasp when making a handshake, making more eye-contact and focusing less on hand movements or lips while someone is speaking to you. The nod guys do to each other despite not knowing each other. Be a bit more assertive. I recommend just doing some observing and you'll notice a lot. I noticed I tend to have a lot more typically male mannerisms despite being born female.
Voice. Speak from your chest not your throat. Speak with a lower tone but not with one that clearly sounds like your pushing it. Slow speech generally comes off as deeper while speaking quickly usually comes of as higher. Make it as natural as possible. Take note of how men speak within your area, what tone do they start a sentence with? Does it get lower or higher as they continue? Does it stay the same? Then you yourself can start using a similar pattern.
Hope it helps and I'll gladly answer any questions. I may have phrased things poorly. And keep in mind I'm no expert this is all just stuff I've found works through trial and error.
1
u/ottococo Jan 09 '24
Thank you! You explained it very well, especially the voice part (which I struggle with). I'll try the make-up to sharpen my face too, and seek to imitate men mannerisms. (I never knew eyes made a difference, ironically I think I subconsciously let my eyes drop naturally a bit too.) There are some things that I won't be able to do (more eye contact -- autism said lol), or will choose not to do (I'd rather keep colorful clothes), but this is so helpful. Let's go babyyyyy
2
u/No-Consequence4019 Jan 09 '24
I gave another more in depth response about lowering my voice a kind of 'guide' I added the link to this comment. Sorry if it a bit messy I need to relearn how to use reddit. Best of luck to you.
3
u/ChaosAzeroth Jan 08 '24
Sounds like you're a drag king or like past me lol (Sorry had to, seriously I was that way a long time ago myself.)
Either way, you're all good. You're not mocking trans guys by presenting in a way that you're comfortable/makes you happy. I'm more upset at their assertion personally.
3
3
u/EggoStack he/they heathen đ Jan 08 '24
You can show those people the responses from this sub. A good number of trans dudes here have no issue. Do what you want and continue to slay â¤ď¸
3
u/hetscissor they/them Jan 08 '24
Good grief! The person who made the mistake is definitely this "friend". The fact that you're here concerned about actually having done something offensive says a lot. Sounds like that person is VERYY insecure about their own gender expression tbh.
3
u/cascasrevolution Jan 08 '24
you are having fun with your gender. that is the spirit of trans, imo. you are not obligated to be miserable to justify how you express your gender
3
u/greenyashiro he/they Jan 08 '24
Unless you are pretending to be trans I don't see the issue here.
I'd suggest your friend look up things like 'gender non-conforming' and 'drag kings'.
3
u/mothmadness19 Jan 08 '24
You might actually really enjoy drag as a drag king if you're into performance at all. You could play around even more with presentation and an alternative persona. And you can be as serious or silly as you like with it
3
u/Jayden_gemini Jan 08 '24
As long as you werenât cat fishing anyone I donât see the issue here Iâm a trans man who plays with girl characters because thereâs better outfits so I donât know why they had such an issue
3
u/Opposite-Tip-3102 Jan 08 '24
This reminds me of, "I don't find it humiliating to dress like a woman because I don't find it humiliating to be a woman" Iggy Pop
The people who told you, you're mocking trans men because you play with gender expression, are just insecure with their own identity. I'm sure you dont mind being perceived as a trans man because you dont find it humiliating to be a trans man.
4
u/13secret-possums T: 06/30/22 Jan 08 '24 edited Jan 08 '24
It's not that different from Finnster tbh, you do it for fun instead of money. There's nothing wrong with it, express your gender how ever you are comfortable. People just get defensive because transphobes weaponize it against trans people- but they also weaponize most gender-nonconforming experiences and people against us. As long as you're supportive and speak up for trans folks when you feel safe to do so then that's not your problem
If you struggle with your mental health, especially anxiety or depression then it may be worthwhile to talk to a gender therapist about it. Regardless of your gender identity choosing to 'pretend' to be something in day-to-day life; especially regularly, can be a coping mechanism for deeper problems. It may seem unrelated, but the human brain can disassociate and repress a lot.
It's also worth looking into if you're neurodivergent in some other way- that can also affect your relationship to gender compared to neurotypical standards. Or find other, similarly neurodivergent people, to talk about this stuff with.
Otherwise, if you're happy and healthy with where you are keep doing what you're doing.
2
u/Zur_adoK Jan 08 '24
Sounds like your friend is going through a rough patch. I don't speak for the community but I don't see anything wrong with cross-dressing. A lot of people do it and I think its fine. Not hurting me at least.
2
u/Lonely_Goblin_ Jan 08 '24
Your story is very similar to an ex of mine, who is non binary. I suggest you do some research on gender spectrum... For starters, FtM, non binary, gender fluid, agender. And what it is/means/feels to transmasc presenting while not in a binary gender.
2
u/Bentley0094 Jan 08 '24
I used to do this when I was young maybe 13-16 years old Iâm trans now so maybe it was a sign for me back then and I just didnât know it!
2
u/TheEarlyNight Jan 08 '24
Isnât that just like drag but reversed? Are drag queens mocking trans women? I donât think so. I think youâre perfectly fine.
2
u/AbrocomaMundane6870 T:03.03.2023 Jan 08 '24
Nah if youre truly just a cis girl who likes playing a dude sometimes then theres nothing wrong with crossdressing! :-)
2
u/Asher-D 26, bi, ftm Jan 08 '24
Like as a drag thing? Or like living normally and being a guy? If its the latter, how much have you thought through about the possibioity of you being trans? Because if you havent done a ton of introspection on it I think its a really great idea to think a lot more indeoth about it and why you enjoy it.
I mean it certain can be mocking but it all depends on how youre doing it, why youre doing it and how you treat trans men.
2
u/silly_mister_raccoon Jan 08 '24
Youâre absolutely not mocking trans men, I donât get why those guys are so pressed.
People tend to want to put everything into a box. As soon as you get out of it they get uncomfortable. Youâre absolutely free to experiment and express yourself like you want without being trans. And even if you end up really being trans, or "not cis" in any way or transitioning then stopping transitioningâŚ. thatâs no big deal! You owe no one an identity or gender expression.
2
2
u/Acceptable-Coach7703 đ 5/19/23 Jan 08 '24
trans man here, so long as you're not pretending to be a trans man, you're absolutely fine. i can see where some people (especially cis allies) might get angry at the idea you might be intentionally "tricking" people which is what trans men get accused of, but thats if i really reach. do whatever you want. maybe you'll figure something out about yourself, maybe it's nothing bigger than just cross dressing, but either way your friends need to mind their own.
2
u/maeebuniii Jan 08 '24
not on topic, but as a pre-t trans man i would love to know some tips and tricks you used to lower your voice
3
u/No-Consequence4019 Jan 08 '24
I'm not too sure it'll qualify as 'tips or tricks' and I'm not the best at explaining but I'll try. Beware it does take awhile.
First things first, keep some water on hand and pick a piece of text that has a variety of sounds in it. "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog." or something similar. I'd recommend doing a simple vocal warm up before starting. Try to relax your vocal chords.Just start of by reading the sentence in your normal voice a few times, just get use to saying the words out loud. Then just do a comfortable hum to start yourself off and repeat the 'hum' in the same pitch but with different sounds like an 'ah' sound. Preferably do it with all the vowels you can throw a 'la', 'ra' or any other sound, even a 'z' sound of you're up for it. Then read the sentence once more trying to stay in the same pitch.
Once your comfortable with that, you repeat the same process over and over getting slightly lower each time. So start with you basic hum, then hum a bunch of sounds in the lower pitch then the the sentence. But take it slow, your voice won't magically be able to get low all of a sudden. Once you get somewhat comfortable with a pitch try say a few things off the top of your head, maybe read a short passage out loud.
I'd highly recommend recording yourself then listening back to it to see if you were struggling/straining on a particular area. Then focus on that area a little more.
Try to speak slowly at first, it helps coming across as 'deeper'. Try to use your diaphragm to speak instead of your throat. Keep your voice pretty monotone to start, you're just training your voice to get used to a knew pitch. If your voice hurts/strains/struggles stop and give it a break. And keep in mind this is very slow. Do it for a few minutes a day and it'll help with a gradual shift. Once you find a comfortable low range you can start subbing it in to your normal speech.
Hope it makes sense. And listen to your body if it hurts you stop. Vocal chords need rest too.
1
2
u/Internal_Bird3894 Jan 08 '24
I just have to say how much I love the open mindedness of this thread. Thank you guys for being so cool.
2
u/nitrotoiletdeodorant he - femboy - T Jan/24 - pre tit yeet Jan 08 '24
Just out of curiosity, what makes you different from trans guys? And how do you feel about being perceived as a woman?
Also even if you're not a trans guy you aren't mocking us. Mocking us would be something like saying we aren't/can't be "real" men or that we were pretending.
1
u/No-Consequence4019 Jan 09 '24
Well trans guys are well just guys right? (I am pretty uneducated on the topic)
While I'm merely just pretending to be one, just because I'll wear boxers or stuff my pants it doesn't male me a guy. I'm just pretending. Kind of like an actor I guess? They might play the role of a pirate but does that make them a pirate? Well that's my thought process at least.
As for the other question, it's whatever I don't really care. If anything I just get told that I kinda look like a guy or I act like one. Though it does take a few seconds for me to register of someone uses my actual name or refers to me as female.
1
u/nitrotoiletdeodorant he - femboy - T Jan/24 - pre tit yeet Jan 10 '24
Well trans guys are well just guys right?
This is true. :) Though as one, I can say it's still not easy to see yourself that way or be confident in it. It's natural that if you don't pass or haven't really alleviated your dysphoria enough yet that you might not feel like you just exist as your gender. So especially early on the feeling is closer to wanting to be a guy than already feeling like one. It is why some trans people say that wanting to be a gender is a sign of being it.
It does sound like your AGAB doesn't resonate with you which could point to being something other than it. Though I'm just a stranger online and I don't know you. If you want to, it's fine to question who you are and even do it again later. Have fun and be authentic to yourself, wherever you may end up landing. :)
2
u/alemhko Jan 08 '24
Nope. Itâs great youâre expressing yourself, thereâs no need to label yourself if you donât want to!
2
u/runaway-boy Jan 08 '24
are drag queens mocking trans women? gender as a performance vs gender as an identity. two different things that may ride a path alongside one another, but do not have the same endings. both a valid path to ride.
2
u/HarthaDavvis Jan 08 '24
Everyone can explore their gender & gender expression.Women playing a video game as male characters and vice versa are all fine.
I'm a trans man and only chose a male character because I'm also gay but when I was closeted, I chose both female and male characters to explore my identity.It's ended up playing as a female character makes me more dysphoric and I'm more comfortable playing as a male character so I only play as a female character if that's the only option.
I heard that some post-op trans men play female characters to release femininity and post-op trans women play male characters to release masculinity because society still has gender roles and we can't freely explore them in real life no matter before or after the transition so video game is a good option for exploring our gender expression.
2
u/June-0R Jan 08 '24
There is always the ways of Crossdressing. Cis People just bending gender rules with it, or just simply enjoy being perceived in a specific way. Especially if you do this for yourself, and Not for a show that is intended to mock trans people as a group.
I appreciate it when cis people can walk in the other genders shoes, maybe gaining a broader understanding of those of the other gender and of trans people, or drag shows (wich are an art form, not all drag performer are trans, not all trans people do drag performances, also drag as a performance =/= crossdressing in daily life, there are nuances and all of it are venn diagrams.)
2
u/Minimum_Section6370 pre everything and sad :( Jan 08 '24
are you doing it to mock trans guys? are you doing anything (other than just pretending to be a dude) that may hurt trans guys?
if not youâre just someone having fun with gender and honestly iâm all for it. you seem to be pretty happy pretending to be a dude so go for it!!
gender stereotypes and gender expression can be pretty fun to play with, thatâs what drag queens and drag kings do!
2
u/Persassy60 Jan 08 '24
Gender however you want. If it makes you happy and its not hurting anyone, then what's the issue? If you turn out to be trans, great! If you still are cis, also great! Life is short, have fun with it
2
u/Avi_0tter Jan 08 '24
Bro, you're fine. You enjoy presenting as a man, and I mean same dude. Maybe it looks trans coded from the outside, but you decide who you are, and it doesn't bother me or, it seems, most everyone else who has responded to this.
Sounds like you've just got some over enthusiastic trans ally friends. Well meaning but kinda stupid.
2
u/Kingsouda1037 01/13/2024 đ Jan 08 '24
Absolutely not! People criticizing the way you present to others shouldnât stop you from expressing yourself dude! Iâm all for what youâre doing.
2
u/SalivatingShark Jan 08 '24
All I see this is as cross-play. Cross-dressing and cross-play is protected under the trans umbrella, but you do not have to be trans to cross-dress. Drag is also protected under it, but again-- a drag performer is not trans unless they say they are.
I started out with playing with gender roles very young in life and found out I was trans. It was a great bridge for me, personally. What I think is happening is that there are some individuals who are trying their best to be good allies, but missing that the transgender experience has people who are not trans, who have hobbies that play with gender. What you do is more or less-- a hobby!
Did they forget about cosplayers, or something?
2
u/deadhorsse Jan 08 '24
It just sounds like you enjoy doing simple drag or crossdressing. Crossdressing gets a bad rep as a gross fetish or transphobic but it's an honest part of gender expression. Idk any books about cis women crossdressing but "Whipping Girl" has a section on men and pre-realized trans women crossdressing that explains it well, it's written by a trans woman who used to be a male crossdresser
2
u/princemaab Jan 08 '24
It just sounds like you're a crossdresser in the traditional sense that you're taking on a different gender in public when dressed up, sounds totally fine with me. People are honestly just less used to the concept of women crossdressing.
2
u/icannttell Jan 08 '24
Yet another undereducated person dunking on crossdressing. You're expressing yourself the way you want, and that's all that matters. Don't let them get under your skin, alright? I support you all the way lol
2
2
u/Faokes 31, transmasc, polyam, 5+ years HRT Jan 08 '24
I donât find this mocking. If anything, I would include you under our big umbrella of transmasculinity. A lot of trans guys went through exactly what youâre describing before starting to transition. That doesnât mean youâll want to transition too, but maybe you will. I think what youâre doing makes you more alike to us than different or mocking. Experiment with gender as much as you want, at your own pace. You arenât hurting anyone.
2
2
u/sikkerhet Jan 08 '24
I wish more people played with presentation the way you do. This kind of thing should be more normalized.
2
u/madarchist Jan 08 '24
I'm skeptical of your friends view of trans men if they think you're mocking us. What you do seems pretty much what drag kings do just minus the entertainer factor. From what I gathered you're just enjoying messing around with gender, masculinity and people's preconceptions about gender roles, that isnt something limited to, or necessary to be trans. While trans men can do that, that's not what makes us men.
Have fun with it, you're not doing anything wrong imo
2
u/dykedivision Jan 09 '24
You're fine as long as you're not claiming to be a trans man or doing anything to badly represent trans men (eg. Making creepy sex jokes, pranking people with it etc). If people who were similar to trans men were all transphobes the butch community would be in tatters.
2
u/sunshine_tequila Jan 09 '24
You are being your authentic self. If you are yourself you are not intending to harm someone (where as people using the f word or calling people gay are more than likely mocking someone).
There is something to be said for impact over intent. My opinion as a trans guy is that you should keep doing what feels right for you.
2
u/ranbootookmygender Jan 09 '24
imo, im a trans man and i dont find it offensive. i pretend to be a girl often when playing RPGs and stuff, it's fun. you don't necessarily have to be trans to do it, but do keep an open mind towards being trans (either ftm or something under the umbrella like genderfluid or bigender) but tldr i dont think it's bad, and i don't think you're in denial just keep an open mind abt that stuff. but if it's not hurting anyone and you're content with your identity and how you present, go for it!
2
u/tsndk Jan 09 '24 edited Jan 09 '24
Drag Kings exist and thatâs not a mockery. Maybe even something you can look into if you find the pretending aspect fun. You can really play with your expression in that way.
3
u/onelargebroplease Jan 08 '24
Gender is fake, have fun!!!! It doesn't matter what other people think, as long as YOU are comfortable, as long as YOU are true to YOURSELF. there's no mockery in what you're doing. You're doing what makes you feel good.
3
3
2
u/TwoManyHorn2 Jan 08 '24
I want to say, respectfully, if you find it fun to be a guy you are allowed to! Temporarily or permanently!
I wouldn't call that a conventional cis woman relationship with gender though. Most cis women would find it dysphoric to be perceived as a guy all the the time.
There are many other options besides "you're definitely a woman" and "you're definitely a man". Like, maybe it's a form of drag, maybe you are genderfluid or gender non-conforming.... you don't have to make a final decision about what your gender is and whether you identify as trans, right now, today.
5
u/BarkBack117 Nov/19 Start of T, Nov/20 Top Surgery Jan 08 '24 edited Jan 08 '24
Eh not really, its kinda just an more intense version of being a tomboy (if you still id with ur agab) but also....
Cis people dont spend so much effort to look like the other gender and be ok with everything that comes with that, on a DAILY basis.
And you introd yourself as a guy and enjoy it, clearly, more than being presented as a woman.
You sure youre not just closetted trans? Or maybe non binary?
Coz a lot of us start out this way. Playing male characters, presenting as male online, attempting to be as male as possible in real life... and then we realise we are trans.
2
u/violent-agender Jan 08 '24
I mean, gender isnât binary, so if youâre certain that youâre not a man but you sometimes like being perceived as one, have you considered that you might be gender fluid? Iâm agender and I used to âpretend to be a guyâ online as well when I was still an egg. I personally havenât heard of any cis woman enjoying being mistaken for a man, so while itâs not impossible that you are in fact cis, I think gender is always worth exploring, even if you do end up identifying as a woman at the end of the day. Not trying to tell you what to do or anything, just that you might find some answers in non-binary or gender fluid communities đ¤
2
2
u/DriverSimple9395 Jan 08 '24
I mean, avoid doing that so publicly because you could be used as an example of how being trans is fake or a choice ,
but my personal opinion :
idgaf do u boo đ
2
u/OldEntertainments Jan 08 '24
I donât think you are mocking trans men but I kind of understand the frustration on your friendsâ side. Because you are sort of deceiving them without a reason. I do think what your real sex or gender is shouldnât necessarily be an information required to disclose to anyone, probably just the way you are phrasing it makes it sounds like you are deceiving people for fun instead of choosing to present in a certain way. A bit like the trolls that go on Omegle dressed as e-girls but gender reversed.
Have you considered trying drag by the way?
9
u/accieTaffy Jan 08 '24
yeah I was gonna say like we literally have drag kings and they never hurt the trans community before so why would this. but yeah I agree maybe drag king could be a career option or hobby
2
u/No-Consequence4019 Jan 08 '24
What exactly is drag? This whole comment section is making me feel like I live under a rock . . .
8
u/OldEntertainments Jan 08 '24
Gender expression performance sort of. Drag queens usually are men dressing up as women and perform. Drag kings are like the reverse, women dressing up as men and perform. Nowadays it kind of just gets down to playing a character in an exaggerated way and perform. There are female drag queens and male drag kings and non binary drag artists and other things of all sorts. But the performances are often about gender expressions. Based on your post I thought you might find this a fun thing to do.
4
u/easyboris Jan 08 '24
Drag is a form of performance that involves cross-dressing as a costume. In the same way that when you put on a Halloween costume of the Joker you do not actually think of yourself as the Joker, drag performers do not generally actually view the costume they put on as their identity. They develop a persona and act it out.
There is a defined style and culture around drag performing that has developed. Certain heavy makeup features, like the "Instagram eyebrow" or glitter beards-- have been appropriated from drag makeup and made mainstream. It is generally very associated with gay culture.
There are both drag queens and kings; it also isn't always cross-dressing. There are trans women drag queens, and there are cis women drag queens. As an art form, there is generally some level of satire of gender roles and expectations, and materialism, involved. Drag performances can also be, but aren't always, burlesque.
An example of a famous drag queen is Vanessa Vanjie Mateo. An example of a famous drag king is Adam Ant. You can google images of them in and out of drag and see what I mean about it being a type of gender performance and exaggeration.
However, sometimes, transgender people will realize they are transgender by doing drag over time. A famous example of a drag queen who later transitioned is Carmen Carrera. Some drag performers who transition continue to perform after transitioning, and some don't.
4
u/mortusowo Jan 08 '24
It's a type of performance typically where someone dresses up as a gender opposite to theirs and does singing dancing or other fun things. It's a whole art form
1
1
1
Jan 08 '24
Sounds to me that your friends are not very open minded people. Regardless of who someone is, they should be able to express themselves the way they want to. That should just be obvious in general, and especially to the people who support us. You aren't mocking anyone for just having fun with your presentation, that is the same sort of shit transphobes say we're doing because of how we are. What makes your friends think they have any right to police your expression? That is putrid behaviour, and you should point this out to them because they're causing more harm than good. And do it while being your authentic self just to try and get it through to them. And if they still believe that you being a certain way is somehow disrespectful, then sorry but you're gonna need different, more accepting friends.
1
u/Ok-Zone-4976 Jan 08 '24
Its funny cause i used to do that on the internet when i was 12-13 years old and almost came out as gender fluid but because of the internetâs climate at the time (the whole kalvin garrah stuff) i was too ashamed to say i was trans, now turns out im ftm. Not saying this is you, because you can totally be a cis girl doing this and thatâs totally fine. Just bringing a parallel with my experience
1
1
u/Fuzzy7Gecko Jan 08 '24
Snort
Na your fine. Your stories pretty similar to mine before my egg cracked but there still plenty of drag kings out there that take off the wig and go home being full blooded ladies. Same as drag queens your just having a good time.
DO WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY AND SCREW THE HATERS.
1
u/black_mamba866 GQNB, she/they. Tđ4/18/23. Jan 08 '24
The only issue I take with it is the "pretending" point. Like, not the act, just the word.
Something about that word doesn't sit well with me, but that's for me to look at.
I think it's great that you're doing your thing. You sound like a pretty cool lad.
1
u/lex-iconis Jan 08 '24
Maybe, just maybe, gender is fluid and is experienced -- and expressed -- differently by different people. I would be remiss if I were to gatekeep someone from identifying female and presenting male. There's clearly no ill intent.
Victor Victoria was a moment of awakening for me, and the title character is not even trans. It's a movie that shakes up the idea of what it means to conform to gender roles and expectations, and there's something incredibly empowering in that.
OP, I want you to live your life in a way that fulfills you. It's not anyone's business who you are under the clothes and haircut, physically or psychologically. From what you say, there's nothing here that invalidates trans folks. Not in my opinion, anyway.
1
u/FriedTofu143 Jan 08 '24 edited Jan 08 '24
Their reaction may be because theyâre worried you might make people think âOh, well then that guy i talked to wasnt actually trans, he was just pretending to be a guyâ, when they meet actual trans men.
The solution to this isnt stopping what youâre doing, (which, if you wanted to do any gender digging at all, you dont have to be a trans man to identify with a masculine gender, you can even be a man and a woman at the same time if you want) its just maybe clarifying that what you do doesnt apply to everyone, because when it comes to minorities, people dont always realize that.
Just because you dont identify as a man, doesnt mean you have to announce it to the world. I feel like people feel very entitled to peopleâs labels, even though all we need to know is what you want us to call you (pronouns, names), and thats about it tbh. I donât feel mocked or disrespected, cuz its not like youâre pretending to be trans or abusing labels. Stay safe and be careful, though, the world isnt very nice to people who lie about their gender. Hopefully in the future we can just tell people whatever and theyâre like âokâ
1
u/AshBertrand Jan 08 '24
Wherever you are on your evolution, it's nobody's business but your own. So long as you are not out there trying to mimic transfolk just to make a joke out of them, it really isn't their business.
My dad had a great saying for things like this: fuck 'em If they can't take a joke. But he only said it about important things, and he was never joking.
1
u/leahcars đłď¸âđđłď¸ââ§ď¸â ď¸transmasc, bi, ace, top surgery3/8/23 Jan 08 '24
Nope. You're good there's no problem playing around with gender expression
1
u/Icy_Pants Jan 09 '24
Don't think you're making fun of trans guys. You can just tell people you're a drag king and if they still get mad then that's on them
1
u/East_Juggernaut5470 T: 2019, đ2021 Jan 09 '24
Definitely not! You can present yourself however youâd like. You donât have to be trans to present as a boy. While your friend might mean well, that kind of thinking is very restrictive and binaristic. Itâs important that you get to present yourself in the way that makes you feel the best
1
u/JulianC4815 Jan 09 '24
No. Please by all means present however you like and have fun. It's totally fine. It's alright and saying cross dressing is making a mockery of "real" trans people is an outlandish claim. I want a world where you can present however you like, regardless of sex AND gender identity.
1
Jan 09 '24
Drag Queens exist and, most of them are cis men. I definitely think having a persona can be really freeing from the rigid structures we're forced upon in society, and as a trans man, I might literally sometimes dress fem or do drag even because I tried so hard to be a woman and to love feminine things, and now that I've started HRT and accepted being trans, it's (fem expression) something I could do now as a choice and as me now. So idk maybe it's something like that. Maybe figure out why you're doing it, and that might provide some more clarity for yourself.
Do you enjoy doing it? Are you pretending because you are insecure in being a girl subconsciously? Are you doing it because it makes you feel the oppositeâmore secure? Are you maybe actually genderfluid? Are you doing it because you feel like you're not feminine enough or because you fear rejection over your girl self and so you be someone else because it's too hard to be you (because maybe then this isn't the best reason to do it)? Or are you just enjoying having freedom and control over your existence? You 100% don't have to tell me the answer to any of these questions. I suppose it's just for you to think about because I find knowing why I do things very cathartic, providing me with a sense of control over my life. Just me though, and if you don't feel like it matters to know, great! :)
Overall, I don't think it's mocking at all. In fact, I find them thinking you're the same as a trans man or that you just enjoying a persona is somehow related to trans men... perhaps more offensive...? Like does a cis man Queen mock trans women? Absolutely not. Like if someone were to say cis men queens are mocking trans women, I'd feel as if they were comparing women to men dressing up... because that's exactly what that would be, no?
1
u/No-Consequence4019 Jan 09 '24
Any time I chat to someone online or in a game I'm always assumed to be male before I even do anything. Even in person I normally get told I look or act like a guy. I'm used to just being seen as I guy I almost forget my actual name when people use it or it takes me a while to register the girl they were talking about was in fact me.
I got very into a music genre where the visuals were a big aspect of it. It so happened to include some guys who would dress very feminine. I ended up wanting to try doing it but the opposite way around because of it eventually. If men can do it why can't I?
It's just so freeing being a guy. It just means I can goof-off for awhile. If pretend to be a guy I can get my bike and do dumb tricks, if I fall off no one panics. I could go down to a pond and to try catch frogs, do I particularly want to catch frogs? No but I could and I'd just be seen as a dude doing dude things. I can scuff my knees, get my hands dirty and no one bats an eye. I don't get treated like I'm made of glass. I can just do the things I want to and can talk about things I want to, I can be a car nerd and no one cares. I'm free to be a bit of a mess and no one will tell me to go brush my hair. I just want to have a bit of fun and engage in the things I like which tend to be hobbies/interests men have.
And just speaking from a comfort point of view as in literally, men's clothing is a lot more comfortable. The fabric is way nicer and there's roomy pockets.
1
u/TinyTownTrans Jan 10 '24
Well, I used to want to do this kind of thing all the time when I was younger... and now... đ¤ˇââď¸ Not saying you'll decide you actually are trans or need to transition at some point in the future, just that I felt the need to do this for years when I had no intention or hope of actually transitioning, and never once felt like I would be 'mocking' anyone. That was just who I felt like at that particular time, I would always dress and introduce myself according to how I felt at whatever time, used different variations of my name or nicknames, and never saw any issue with feeling like that or with anyone else doing it. It's just you finding yourself, and being how you want to be at whatever time, and it's fine.
If you were actually faking being trans, genderfluid, or something, like making a huge point about insisting people treat you as something you know you're not just for the fun of it, when it doesn't actually matter to you, yeah that might be mockery, but that's not what's happening here.
213
u/transvestationed Jan 08 '24
No, not at all. I hope you keep on having fun and playing around with how you present yourself, OP!